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P4 Fuel Tank restoration
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:33 pm    Post subject: P4 Fuel Tank restoration Reply with quote

My P4 tank is leaking, so I removed it from the car (oh joy, I loves working with petrol).

In the 33 manual, it says you can remove the top plate (the one which has the fuel hoses and the connection for the fuel level float) by removing six screws. My tank doesn't appear to have this :



Interesting. Is anyone else's P4 tank like this? I'm assuming, by the look of it, that it's a screw in thing... Should I unscrew it by hammering a screwdriver on one of the raised bits? Any ideas? I'm guessing there is a proper tool for this somewhere?

Bob
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, worked it out. The whole thing rotates. Screwdriver and hammer to turn it... and I'm your uncle.

Bob
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lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say you're right Bob. If it was me I'd be tapping it lightly on one of the three raised luggs anti-clockwise. From the pic the indents on the tank rim are there to stop the assembly over tightening.
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lee16v
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reply was too late uncle Bob!
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lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it it's repairable then?
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Oggie
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 811
Location: Whitehill

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to open it you place 2 small charges of c4, one to the left of the sensor and one to the right Laughing sorry bb timewasting whilst waiting for my flight!.
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 1223
Location: Stafford, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yep, rotate it just don't break the part you rotate.

It is the normal cars that have the 6 bolts (maybe just carbed ones).

Good luck finding the hole.

All the best

Keith
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lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's six bolts on mine Keith so it's just different for the P4
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I got the blighter off.

Going to restore with one of those "tank sealer" things (see if it works, I understand Gritsop has had good results using this technique).

I'm thinking about the best way to remove all the crud and rust from inside. Thinking of putting some stones inside, duct taping the holes up, and then shaking it around for a couple of hours!

I'll keep you all updated with the results. Thanks for the replies.

Bob
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just adding some facts about tank restoration.

I have been restoring my tank for months and it is now ready to be installed on the 33. The tank I have was one of the last to be available from Alfa and within 4 years it leaked from the spot welds. So I decided to restore it properly and hopefully once for all using the fuel tank sealer kit.

Rougly the process was:

- soldered the bottom part with soldering iron on a radiator shop. There are quite some spot welds on the bottom due to the chambers separation on the inside; in total the radiator shop soldered all 16 spot welds. The welds are the first to rust from the inside

- cleaned the inside with marine clean; this product will remove all dirt even though you dont see dirt and crud with bare eye. Two or three times will give you a clean inside.

- Prepare the inside with Metal Ready. Prepared metal surface in order to successfully "accept" tank sealer. It also removes and neutralises rust

- Tank sealer. A magic liquid that will cover every mm of the inside. It is so strong that once it drops on your skin it will flake off after some days or if it stains your clothes then consider the stain permanent. One of my trousers still has a stain from tank sealer six months now. Once dry it has a very smooth finish feeling, so smooth like touching glass.

Optional steps.

Paint the external surface with POR 15 products. Rust preventative paint and Blackcote paint; very durable and anticorrosive methods.

Here are some pics during my restoration.

Soldered the spot welds


Dirt and crud removed with marine clean


Metal ready prepared surface


Fuel tank sealer just applied


Stripped and ready to paint with rust preventative paint


Rust preventative paint applied


Final painting and finishing


Now looking for a nice day to remove temporary tank and install the restored one.
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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great.. .that's exactly what I'm looking for.

Bob
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

For people who might be unaware of the involved risk, please DO NOT ATTEMPT TO WELD A FUEL TANK as it might explode. If i understood the explanation well this is due to the heat releasing some gas fumes from the metal which may cause the tank to blow up.
Have a professional shop do it (they use oxygen-deprived atmosphere) or replace the tank. A mechanic i know witnessed in his young days the explosion of a tank during welding, he said the guy welding the tank was literally cut in half by the metal fragments. If you still want to attempt welding a tank, you can fill it entirely with water and weld it while it's full of water.

regards,
zp
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john 33_16v
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Joined: 27 May 2005
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Location: herts, uk

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gritsop,

I know you were starting with a newish tank, but that does look fantastic.

John
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lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Bob, what took Than 'months' to do you have to squeeze into 20ish days if you want to get to SAD?
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He can make it within 20 days ... my "months" spam of time was just due to the fact that I have a tank borrowed from my friend Dennis, so I had all the time to restore it at my pace.

Regards,
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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop
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lee16v
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing like having lots of time at your disposal Than Very Happy

Looks very good by the way. Hoping mine will resemble something like that when I do it!
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

Actually I will tell you the actual results when I install the tank on the 33 and fill her up Wink

Regards
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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee, my little SAD/SPA timer tells me it's 32 days to SAD and 71 days to SPA.

I'll have that tank done soon... clocks have gone forward (extra evening time) and the weather is nice.

Bob
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lee16v
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well get off this site and get on with it then Laughing
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AlfaMack
Alfa Arna


Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: South Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it the car failed it's MOT then Bobber?

The info about not welding a fuel tank is a good one. when I was in the RAF a guy was fixing his mini at the car club. Needed the fuel tank doing and proceeded to do it himself. The place emtied pretty quick when he started doing it! Got a right bollocking off the guy in charge. Embarassed
Did the job though
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Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 1223
Location: Stafford, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Strictly speaking as it is the fuel vapour that is dangerous it would probably be safer to weld a tank full of petrol than one that had been emptied.

Not that I would want to try either.

All the best

Keith
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In maritime literature when tankers need to be serviced or welded there is a process called "gas free" where fuel vapors should be eliminated before any job done.

This "gas free" procedure is done by filling up the tanks with water. Vapors are forced out of the tanks and thus being secure for welding.

I guess filling up the tank with water 2 or 3 times it can be considered safe to use welding.

Regards
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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop
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bobbber
P4


Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm working on it Lee! Laughing

Right then.... done the first clean up. Took ages, but amazing what gunk will come off when you use a scourer and some washing up liquid :



Interesting discovery... someone has tried to seal this tank before (clearly failed!). It looks like putty in there! Shocked



Appears, whatever it is, to be pretty tough stuff though. Probably remove it as I want a totally "back to metal" tank before I do anything else.

Nothing more I hate than people sticking some shite on in an attempt to seal something.

Bob
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john 33_16v
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Joined: 27 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobbber,

That 'shite' looks like Chemical Metal made by plastic padding, basically a pretty tough filler. Probably worth grinding it off.

Used it yesterday to stick some screws for legs onto a big red door knob that is now a ladybird in my son's Spring Parade at school. The lady birds spots were Alfa black, left over from a s2 33!

John
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john 33_16v
16 Valve


Joined: 27 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobbber,

Is this better than yours? Might save expense of welding Up???

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-33-P4-16V-Petrol-Tank-No-holes-no-dents_W0QQitemZ190297375837QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item190297375837&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318



John
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