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andrew

Just changed the cam belts on my 16V but now there is a loud knocking noise that changes with the engine revs, it sounds like hydraulic tappets with no oil. I'm 99% sure I have the timing marks set correctly as I checked them numerous times on both sides of the engine while turning it by hand. If they are out it can only be by one tooth but would this create a knocking noise and more importantly could it cause damage to the heads? Confused

johnboy

Hi there,

it sound's like the timing is out,i did the same thing.all the pully marking's were right ,but the fly wheel was not at it's right place and when i fired it up it sounded like a diesel.recheck everything and i hope you havent bent any valve's Sad

.when you time it up, turn it over by hand with two full revolution's and all the marking's should line up again,the top two pulley marking's should point down at six oclock and the bottom pulley marking's should point at twelve oclock and the rotor arm will be pointing to number one cylinder. hope that help's chap good luck.

john Cool

_________________
WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!

Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet

andrew · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks. The reason I'm sure the timing is set correctly is that I must have turned the engine over 10-15 times and I couldn't get the marks any more spot on. Well it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though.
After talking to the local Alfa expert he was saying that if you are out by one tooth the valve can "kiss" the piston but wont actually cause any damage as the valve just hits the piston square so if this is the case hopefully things will be ok after I get it re timed. He also mentioned that because the 16Vs have hydraulic tappets and the car has been sitting for a while, in my case about two weeks, they can take up to 15 minutes to get pressure in the tappets again but this doesn't sound right to me although it does have that hydrualic tappets plus dying oil pump sound that some cars have.
In any case I'll get the Alfa guys to look at it and I'll let you know what the outcome is. Was your engine OK after it was out a tooth?

johnboy · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

Yvon · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:09 pm Post subject:

Check my "16V timing" answer.

Ciao
Yvon Duvivier
www.duvy.org

sudman · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:44 am Post subject:

In relation to the tappets not getting air, the mechanic is dead on. I recently did all the hydraulic tappets in my 1700 8v motor, and the #3 cylinder was tapping like crazy. Talked to a mechanic, got the same suggestion as you did, air in the tappet, took 20 minutes for the tappet to get oil!

Cheers,

Richard

graemeroberts · Guest

When setting the cam timing did you line up the "II" and "I", and then turn the engine over to check the "><" were also aligned? Mine weren't.

johnboy · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Timing

[ the "II" and "I", and then turn the engine over to check the "><" were also aligned? Mine weren't.[/quote]

Hi there, i take it by "><" you mean the fly wheel marking's,i did the same thing it was out abit. Embarassed

_________________
WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!

Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet

andrew · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Timing

Yvon · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:09 pm Post subject:

"V" marks on cameshaft pulleys are just used to release the tensioner. At that time another "V" mark apear on the fly wheel. They do not have to be aligned perfectly and do not change your belt at that time. Use instead the "II" and 'I" mark to do it

Those "V" marks can't be aligned on both side together. You should turn the engine between checkings.
WHen both tensioner are released, continue to turn engine until II and I marks are aligned again. Check wit "T" mark on flywheel and everything should be OK.

When replacing camefollower, it takes some time to have them working good. They can be either without oil or with too much. Let engine running at iddle until they work correctly.

I did it on a 16V 3 weeks ago and it took 10 minutes to get all followers working good.

Ciao,
Yvon
"Did I tell you my 33 16V is runnng like a rocket now !!!"

graeme · Alfasud Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 64

All I can tell you is I followed the procedure here

www.alfisti.co.uk/16v_boxer_belts.htm

After totally rebuilding the engine it started first time with no knocking.
_________________
16v p4 In pieces.

andrew · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:28 pm Post subject:

Well from what I've read, stories about 16Vs and timing belts usually end in bad news but this time the news is good. My timing was correct, the knocking noise was weak tappets and after sitting there for two weeks all the oil had drained.
The mechanic checked the timing, ran it for 15 minutes and the noise disappeared. Can't wait to take it for a drive this weekend, my old Saab 900 just doesn't do it for me. Very Happy

sudman · Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:57 am Post subject:

Big sigh of relief huh..... i can relate to that!

Thank god it wasn't anythin major!

lesthegringo · Alfasud Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 97

Well, this is a bit like applying moquito repellent after the little bugger's bitten you, but all I can suggest to people doing the heads is if you take the tappets out store them in clean engine oil.

I've got mine in those little pots that baby food comes in (knew I'd find a use for a baby one day.....) and they are numbered so I know which valve they pertain to.

If you think that air has got into them, try this trick, but be careful....

Get an old pan, and put a load of clean engine oil in it. Heat the oil until about 90 degrees C, then using pliers and a lot of care, put the tappets in the oil. The air will expand, and bubble out. Make sure that the oil temperature doesn't drop too far. Leave the tappets in the oil until they are cold, and when the air cools it will contract, drawing the oil into the tappet.

Some cautionary notes

1) do not under any circumstances use the pan your mother in law gave you as a wedding present, or the best pan in the cupboard. Wives get a bit touchy about that sort of thing for some crazy reason

2) do not do this in the kitchen unless you can guarantee a week of no women in the house - they can smell that you've been working in the kitchen at a hundred paces.

Les

lesthegringo · Alfasud Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 97

PS, I'm still a bloody Alfa Arna.....

Have I got to rewrite pride and prejudice before I get something better.....

Les

Scott Sander · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:52 pm Post subject:

Les,

Patience, it will happen.
_________________
Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com

Gary UK · Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:35 am Post subject:

What Les is going to write Pride and Prejudice Shocked

, on you go mate but unfortunately Rolling Eyes

Ms. Austen beat you to it 190 years ago. What about working on a short novel I have had some ideas for, its entitled 'Keith’s love of the Four Rings'. In which a rugged, handsome engineer from the potteries(Region) falls for the austere charms of a cubic German temptress only to have his hopes dashed by her persistent ill health leaving him such a broken man he seeks solace in the arms of several Italians hoping that their constant ailments will re-ignite the flames of passion for his four ringed filly. Mr. Green

Admin · Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:39 pm Post subject:

Hi

Ouch, that is painfull.

Not as painfull as the 4 ringed German temptress though. Nothing could be that bad Wink

Anyway we only have 13 Italian vehicles floating around.

All the best

Keith

Gary UK · Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:22 am Post subject:

13 I-ties impressive, if you were a superstitious man you would have to buy another one.

The air must be short of oxygen round your end then, all that steel happily oxidising Exclamation

Admin · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:10 pm Post subject:

Hi

10 of them are bikes, and there is plenty of alloy and plastic on those.

All the best

Keith