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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:07 am    Post subject: Ever so close Reply with quote

Well the P4 nearly made it out today, but i think it has got too close to its living conditions (Lloyd's garage) and doesn't want to leave. Crying or Very sad

The engine started pretty much first time, save for some cranking to expel air from the fuel lines. Once going, idles beautifully, especially when considering the chip/cams/headwork etc. However after 5-6 minutes of idling, whilst we were bleeding air from water/power steering etc, it seemed to seize and stall!!! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

After a lot of 'f'ing about and panic over whether the valves weren't clear of pistons etc, and with the bottom end ripped open to inspect for bearing wear, and the engine hanging half out of the car, we realised that one off the timing pulleys on the belt end of the crank was on the wrong way round!!!!

The crank has a woodruff key, which retains the two small timing pulleys, and the big pully for alternator/aircon/power steering. These two pulleys are like a wheel with an offset, so there is a hollow on one side, and a flush face on the other. Myself and Lloyd both agreed that it made more sense to have the pulley's smooth faces back to back, to center them on the woodruff key. However, it appears that as you do the nut up, the 'gap' in the pulley face, now facing the engine allows it to push against the the washer into the block. It has just caught outside the front crankshaft oil seal, and as the heat built up, its expanded and had enough force to stall the engine at idle.

Luckily, aprt from a light score mark to the front crank seal plate, no lasting damage, apart from the engine is almost completely stripped and dangling over the inspection pit.

Hopefully tomorrow it can go back together again, and be retested with more success. Then its time for the MOT......

Please feel free to cross fingers, toes and any other appendages that you have spare.
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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Gary UK
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 218
Location: Darlington UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re a lucky man Matt, if that had happened to me I'd have a assorted assemblage of components and swarf.

Good Luck!!
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

Well, at about 2.30 a.m. this morning, the engine fired up again, first crank, and is idling rather nicely again.

It does pink/knock a little at idle, but with over 11:1 CR, silly cams, big valves etc, we are lucky it idles at all!! Hopefully it is something that can be cured with some heavy handed retardation/enrichment when the engine gets mapped. It also has a little sqeak coming from either the alternator or power steering pump, but hopefully with adjustment to the belt tension, that should be cured.

All the electrics appear to be OK, and my dials (oil pressure, temp and voltage) seem to be working and giving sensible readings.

One curious thing was we were using a dipstick from a 145 boxer, my original has long disappeared, which is one of the elctric type, bymetalic level sensing ones. Curiously, half of the tip seemed to repel oil, making it impossible to judge oil level with any real conviction. Seems typical alfa to have made a dipstick out of a metal that repels oil!!!

All we need to do now is finish of fault finding the other little gremlins (temperature warning light comes on at about 80, fuel gauge is not receiving signal from sender, etc) and get the P4 bit working, and then its MOT time.

On the bright side the stereo is awesome.....(I'm not a Barry Boy, Honest)
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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GaryUK
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt

Is the warning light on a seperate sensor from the temp gauge??

The reason I ask is I've had similar problems with an engine that had a leaky head gasket. It gave ok temp readings but the warning light came on(as the engine was running hot). The leak in the gasket was stopping the coolant from circulating properly leading to hot spots and cold spots.

Have you got excessive pressure in the system??
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Cheers for ideas Reply with quote

We haved cured the temp red warning light, by changing the sender, so Job down, but thanks for the idea. Similarly, changed the fuel level sender (also created a flap in the boot floor for future easy access) and cured the fuel level readout issue.

Found the lights were dim upfront, along with some indicator strangeness, but after replacing a couple of earths all was hunky doory.

The overall picture is that on Tuesady lunchtime, Lloyd took it out for an MOT, from a garage he knew to be particulalrly rigourous, and it passed everything without a hitch!!!!!! Even emmisions!!!!!!

Have done about 100 miles since, it it is a serious good bit of fun. It seems incredibly quick, but I have been used to a Ford KA and a Fiat Scudo van for the last 2 years. I will have to get some times done to confirm my suspicions, but i think I'm looking at sub 6.5 secs to 60mph!! I will also report back with some power figures soon, once I've got it run in properly, and had it mapped properly, to unleash all the horses....

If you want to see the car, I think that next Thursday (12th) is Italian night at Ace Cafe, Park Royal, London, just off the A406. I hope to attend, as will Lloyd and The Big G (the Blue 3.0 V6 145), so would be nice to see anyone who is local.....

Have Fun
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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Marcin
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Amsterdam

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Exclamation

It's good to hear that it's working ok after applying such heavy mods.

Quote:
If you want to see the car, I think that next Thursday (12th) is Italian night at Ace Cafe, Park Royal, London, just off the A406.


... for those who are not in London, could you post some pictures of the car?

Cheers,

Marcin
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: Sensible idea Reply with quote

I haven't got any pictures yet of engine in car, or the finished article, as i have been too excited with actually driving it!!!

I will post some very soon, I will try and get some tonight, if the rains holds off.

Any way, I will see anyone else local around the A406....

Here are some of the work down to date:


The inlet camshafts, showing the asymetric inlet timing. This was the whole basis for the project.


And another shot.



You can just see the air horn mod on the second engine shot, seemed fitting as the Suds had them....


This one shows the caliper mod, using a brembo twin pot from an alfa 75, and the enlarged 285mm disc.


One from the other side of the wheel


One of the filler cap, from newton engineering in barking. I had to cut out the old rotten panel and weld in the new customised panel with the cap in it.


The last one for the moment, from Lloyd's pit looking up. It shows the Eiback antirollbar, and the start of the stainless exhaust....

I will try and get some more posted soon, hopefully of the entire car...
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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Ken McCarthy
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 153
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt

Sounds like you have been having fun and now can enjoy the rewards for the work done. Nice job.

I will be interested to hear any feedback on the performance of your big brakes.

Regards
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Eddie W
Alfa 33


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Detailing looks superb. Congratulations. Look forward to more pics.
Regards Eddie
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A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER
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tvatavuk
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: Split, Croatia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matt,

I can see that you fitted Alfa 75 brake callipers with help of some metal Smile
What about discs, from where did they came from, they are also custom made to suit all offsets?
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: All Custom Reply with quote

I went to a company called hispec motorsport, currently based in Dartford, Kent. (They are due to relocate soon to a much larger premises, so they can actually use both of there CNC milling machins to full capacity!!)

http://www.hispecmotorsport.co.uk/

They offer a service whereby you take along a wheel, a strut, and a caliper of your choice, or one of there own calipers (which I should have done, it would have been easier) and they make as big a disc and bracket to let everthing work together. I have gone from standard 235mm discs to 285.

I wouldn't bother trying to use the 75 Brembo twin pots, as spares for them are non existant. I managed to get what Brembo UK beleived to be the last set of four pistons and seals in the UK, from silverstone race wear. However pins and anti rattle plates (the bits that hold the pads in place) I had to get custom made, only £100, and in stainless, but £100 is £100 that could have been spent on ohter things.

Any way, just got to get the 4x4 working, and the speedo has just started to go intermittent.[/url][/b]
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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tvatavuk
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: Split, Croatia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for info.
This is one of those times I wish I live closer to U.K.
If I remember correctly speedo reading is needed by 4x4 ECU to calculate braking force for disengaging el. coupling. If there is no speedo reading for 4x4 ECU will enter mode where it will disengage el. coupling with every touch of brake pedal, maybe even light up 4x4 warning until restarting car.
I had my speedo giving smoke signals two years ago, at that time I bought used (refurbished) one from car scrap yard with only 4k km on, but the other day it again started dropping needle.
I opened it’s el. motor but rotor and brushes were brand new , without any signs of tear/wear.
Also usual suspect 7 Ohm resistor, nor transistor (in this case BD 140) shown any signs of burning, unwelding or such.
At this moment everything is back in P4 and everyday I pray not to see smoke again.
While opening it I took few pictures of original and used speedo, for my web site.
If you need it, I can send you pictures of original and used speedo electronic board and rotor.
So in case it is not speedo sensor or connection to it, you might want to check state of speedos rotor and brushes. While opening/closing it you must take care not to damage brushes (I moved them away from rotor inserting thoothpicks into two motor openings ), and rotor has to be smooth(without grooves from brushes).
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Cheers for advice Reply with quote

I had noticed how there was a link from the speedo to the 4x4 ecu, but the 4x4 was not working before the speedo started going wrong, so I think it is another fault, and not the original one.

I'll open up the speedo tomorrow and have a look at the condition of the board, and clean the brushes/motor. On my one, the needle suddenly drops, as if it is not receiving a signal, or as if the sender is loose in the gearbox, and then goes back to the correct reading. I have checked and sender is mounted correctly, and the cable join in the bulkhead looks ok, although I may replace the plug and socket, as I did on my last one.

Any way, have just been away for the weekend to a campsite just north of Norwich. Along with a visit to Cromer and a jaubt along the A12, have managed to do a 400 mile round trip with no problems!!! I will go to Lloyds tomorrow and change my oil for stage two of running in.
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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tvatavuk
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: Split, Croatia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheers for advice Reply with quote

On my original speedo, resistor in middle of speedos board, just unwelded itself, I opened it and weld it for good (without doing brushes/motor), speedo worked for 10-15min before starting to show 90-100km/h while I was standstill on red light Smile
Next was smoke. Sad
Usually when needle acts way you described, it is only poor connection from sender to speedo, but as you see my P4 (as its owner) allways finds a way to be original.
There is one line in workshop manual 33 about speedo sensor, "if it doesn't work after you put it back, just replace it with new one".
In my case speedo sensor was out 4-5 times.
Anyway smoothing rotor surface should prolong speedos life, so if you don't bend/brake something while doing it, it can't hurt.


400miles round trip, wow thats far, what is current fuel economy?
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo
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Matt Stolton
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 233
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:09 am    Post subject: Fuel Economy is silly... Reply with quote

The fuel economy is bizarrely good, currently. However, once it is run in and I actually drive it properly at revs, I'm sure the economy will disappear.

Somehow I managed to do the entire weekend on one tank of fuel. So I did 386 miles on one P4 tank of Optimax. I don't know the tank capacity, and I wasn't paying attention at the pump, but I reckon that it is pretty good. Most of the way was sitting on Motorway or Dual Carriageway at 3500 rpm in Fifth, so not really revving hard, but not hanging about either (Approx 80mph). I did have a lairy 10 seconds with a 'Barryed' saxo, but he chickened out once I came on cam off of a roundabout!!!! On the way back I tried harrasing a mitsubishi EVO VI, who seemed up for it, but traffic was too heavy for proper fun.

It is much better than my S2 1.7 'ti', which could do about 280 miles max on one tank, much less if I was revving it. This is one of the obvious arguments against carbs vs injection, but I do miss the sound of the trumpets on 40s.... The injection just sounds a little clinical in its delivery of power, rather than the carbs outrageous roar on cam.

re the speedo, I'm certain it is the speedo itself, either dirt or detioration of the stator/brushes. I'll have a look, and inspect for dead components or dry joints, but my guess is dirt.
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Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!
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Adam H
Alfasud


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Portsmouth, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaps - I can't understand this problem with the speedos - my last 33 (a 1992 16v) had this problem so I swapped it for another which didn't fix it.

Does anyone know if it really is the speedo, or another part of the electrical or speedo sensor in the gearbox?

My last Lancia also had speedo problems - initially is was OK and then suddenly you're doing 160mph! (If only....) This was quite common within the Dedra, which of course is related to the 33 in it's parentage. (And Giuseppe, the Fiat electrical engineer!)

A company near Norwich UK can fix them for about £50, I wondered if that could also be the case for our 33 speedos? (I also had a gearbox speedo sensor pack up on the gearbox, which made me wonder if it also could be this part. My Dedra speedo always behaved much more erratically in wet weather!
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