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Fitting Larger brakes
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Eddie_W
Alfasud


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just acquired some JFZ (read Willwood Dynalite) 4 pot alloy calipers for the front of my ser2 and hope to mate them with 284mm rotors from 146 twinspark. Will keep you all updated as to results. I will try them with a rebuilt standard master first and see where we go from there.
Regards Eddie
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Eddie_W
Alfasud


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,just a note to let you know I'm in the process of fitting JFZ ( read Willwood Dynalite) 4pot alloy calipers with 257 dia rotors. Will let you know how they perform. I wanted the 284dia rotors but our suppliers out here didn't list them in the 4x98 stud pattern. I could have redrilled the 5 stud rotors but decided to try the 257s and see how they go. It is after all only a road car driven by a geriatric
Regards Eddie
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Admin
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Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 1223
Location: Stafford, UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

What are the 257mm disks from?

Think the 284 ones are for the 155Q4 (think the Q4 had 4 stud disks and about the correct offset for the 33).

All the best

Keith
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Eddie_W
Alfasud


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Keith, the 257mm discs are from the 146 16v I believe. Elsewhere on this topic the 284s were listed as 146 TS as well as the Q4. The bolt spacing on the 4pots is much further apart than the 33s spacing and the adapter brackets were quite easy to make, a sort of kidney shape with one end ( where it bolts to the hub) 9.5 mm thicker. It would be reasonably easy to make another set at a later date if I decided to go for the 284s but I think the 257s will do for the road. Time will tell. Most of the issues with the 33 brakes lie, I believe , with the piston dia of the caliper not the rotor size but the bigger rotor will have gains in braking as well as a more progressive feel that you get with a bigger radius.
Being an American caliper the entry thread for the hose is 3/8 SAE but this is easy to recut on the 10mm caliper end of a standard 33 hose although I'm still looking at braided at the moment.
Regards Eddie
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Rich B
Alfa 33


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Southampton

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

257mm discs were also fitted to the 164 T-spark and are of similar dimensions (apart from the diameter) to those on the 33. Brunswick motorsport do a kit for around £650 which uses these discs and 4 piston AP Racing calipers...
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Peter D
Alfasud


Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Alfa 33 brakes update Reply with quote

I use the 284 mm disc from Alfa 155 TS 16V and adapters (made here in Denmark) to reposition the original calipers from Alfa 33 16V.

It is a cheap and effective change.

Your LSV (load sensing valve) must be adjusted, until you feel it right.

Peter D
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alfafan
Alfasud


Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 83
Location: Coimbra - Portugal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I use the 284 mm disc from Alfa 155 TS 16V and adapters (made here in Denmark) to reposition the original calipers from Alfa 33 16V.

It is a cheap and effective change.


What is the difference?
The surface of the pad is the same.
Its possible they will not fade so easy but I dont see how they will brake better...
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Peter D
Alfasud


Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 60
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Brakes Reply with quote

The radius for the brake pad force on the disc is increased with 23 mm.

When the radius from the beginning is about 80 mm, 23 mm is more than 25% increase. So you get a 25% greater brake force. That is why you have to re-adjust the the valve for the rear brake to let them give more brake force too.

The area of the brake pads has no influence on the friction and then on the braking force - only the radius to the "middle" of the pads gives a difference.

And there is a bigger disc to accommodate and dissipate the heat.

Ciao
Peter D
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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: opel caliper Reply with quote

Hi, 'Very Happy'
i'm, just now investigating the option to use on my alfa 33 the
Opel front calipers (the old ones suggested in the forum that
fit directly on the 33 wheel hub, with 76-76,2mm spaced bolts)
and 14 rims, as I'd like the 14 original alloy alfa rims.

I have buyed online these inexpensive used calipers, arriving next days:

1 - Opel calipers from Corsa/Tigra/etc for 256-20 mm vented disc

2 - Oper calipers from Calibra/Astra/etc for 256-24 mm vented disc

Calipers 1 have 48mm cylinder like the alfa 33 calipers, so they
are no stronger respect original calipers, but the bigger diameter disk
should give 10% more stopping power ( 10% less heavy brake pedal)
and a very good resistance to fading as they are bigger and vented;
I'll try to see if calipers will fit easy with Hyundai Getz disks 256-19mm,
they have to be re-drilled to 4x98 but it seams to me they fit better
on the alfa 33 hub than the 257-20mm disk from Alfa 164
(huyndai ones and are also less heavy)..

Calipers 2 have 52mm cylinder, bigger than the one of the alfa 33,
so I think bigger calipers and disk can give about 30%
more stopping power (and pedal less heavy but also some
few mm longer travel).
I'll try to see if these calipers will fit easy with Hyundai i20 disks 256-22mm,
they have to be redrilled but they seam to fit better on the alfa 33 hub
than alfa 164 257-22mm disk and are less heavy...

Initially I will not try the option described in the previous posts
of alfa 145 16v and Opel astra mixed parts calipers,
as alfa 145 16v cylinder is 54 mm, so braking could
be also stronger but also the brake pedal travel longer.

Still not sure all will fit with 14 alfa 33 alloy rims, because they
are quite small inside respect modern 14 alloy rims, I'm just trying.
When I'll have all calipers here I'll measure also the weight of each,
because I don't want modify too much the unsuspended mass of the car!
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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried 'Shocked', it seams both opel caliper/carrier
(the one from Astra for 22-24mm discs
and the one from Tigra for 19-20mm discs)
fits on alfa 33 standard 14" alloy rims.
They fit without touching the rim internal and the rim spokes
using discs quite deep (but little less deep and less heavy
than alfa 164 ones) that I think can be adapted to the 33 hub
(hyunday I20 22-256mm; yaris II 22x255mm; audi 80 III 22-256mm;
(hyunday Getz 19x256mm; yaris I 20x255mm; mazda MX5I 20x255mm)
and also using discs with quite low deep,
(opel astra 24-256mm; alfa mito/fiat 500 22-257mm)
that also can be adapted if carriers are milled
some mm in the area where they attach to the hub.

Here some photos with the astra 24-256mm disc and Alfa 33 14"rim,
the red caliper is from Astra gsi (Ps.: it seems is been milled 3,5mm
in the area where it attach to the hub from previous owner)
and the other (smaller and less heavy) is from Opel Tigra









Here photos of the calipers / carriers








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Last edited by Bobkelso on Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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JeremyC
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 583
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you guys do that needs so much stopping power, the standard brakes on my Series 3 16V are more than adequate for fast road use.
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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeremyC wrote:
What do you guys do that needs so much stopping power, the standard brakes on my Series 3 16V are more than adequate for fast road use.

'Very Happy' ..Ok, I agree..33 brake can work for road use..
May be with some little attentions..you can get pads glassed if
hard stopping from fast speed (with a little smoke exing from rims)
or a little of fading using the car on hills, I think the problem is that
this brake system was designed for ' 90 pads with asbestus,
that were more efficient that modern ones, in fact if you use original
alfa pads or racing pads (with asbestos) brakes are quite better..

My intention is different, I'd like to have the brake pedal a little
less heavy just to be more comfortable, actually I have to push
it quite hard to brake and breaking it is a bit too much on adrenaline,
when I have to go in wild/stressing traffic situations..
(and I'd like mechanics,'Rolling Eyes', so playing, do and try little modifications).

I measured quotes from last type 33 hub, here two schemes to select
some discs to use with Opel Calibra/Astra caliper or Tigra/Corsa calipers




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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Updated quotes for opel caliper carrier on alfa 33 wheel hub Reply with quote

Using a small 239,5 mm alfa 33 disc as reference I measured
better the quotes of the opel brake calipers/carriers on alfa 33 wheel hub,
so I corrected (small differences, half a millimeter somewhere)
and reloaded the two schemes on the previous post..

Detailed images with quotes of the various discs named
in the schemes are available here:
http://www.bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Search.aspx

I verified also that Opel calipers on alfa 33 wheel hub
allow 256 / max 256,7mm diameter disc but not 257mm;
pads work in the diameter range from 164-165mm to 252-253mm,
(pad working area in my sample is 43,5mm height,
plus there is some small possible play in the caliper assembly)
so both 256 or 255mm external diameter discs will work fine.


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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi..actually I didnt finish the work..but another italian user
with a wonderful 33 16v did it.
You can see photos of the modified brakes with
- opel calibra calipers (with approximately 2 mm spacers)
- aftermarket brake hoses (in this case only 350mm long)
- Yaris II 22mm disks (258mm diameter worked to 256mm,
and center hole enlarged to 58,5 mm),
all quite an ease work, quite light total weight,
and disk dust shield is preserved..

http://forum.clubalfa.it/attachment.php?attachmentid=93711&d=1355670596

http://forum.clubalfa.it/attachment.php?attachmentid=93712&d=1355670611

These are two of four photos at this forum page
(click on the photo names to open them) :

http://forum.clubalfa.it/impianto-frenante/67059-alfa-33-maggiorazione-impianto-freni-6.html
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Edward
Alfa 33


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone got, or see, or has access to the brackets that fit the Fiat Coupe Brembo callipers to the 33 uprights?

There is a picture here of someone who sold a set a number of years ago (Al from memory), but they did look like a proper bracket. Anyone know anything?

This is the picture I am referring to:
http://www.alfa145.com/upload/Resize%20of%202003_0101Image0001.JPG
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Edward
Alfa 33


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone got, or see, or has access to the brackets that fit the Fiat Coupe Brembo callipers to the 33 uprights?

There is a picture here of someone who sold a set a number of years ago (Al from memory), but they did look like a proper bracket. Anyone know anything?

This is the picture I am referring to:
http://www.alfa145.com/upload/Resize%20of%202003_0101Image0001.JPG
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