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1400 16V rallycar
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Kidderminster

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: 1400 16V rallycar Reply with quote

Until they start a rallying section (which is unlikely) or rename this section "Motorsport" then this is the most appropriate place for this thread. For those of you who have helped me on this forum heres a quick update on where I am at.
The idea is based around the up to 1400cc class in rallying which in forest rallying means that most of the time you run right at the front Very Happy Very Happy . Currently I have an 8V 1600 engine which when you take into consideration that I am not particularly fast, I dont have £250,000 to spend on a car but am fairly dangerous means I run at the back Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad . The consequences of this are rough roads, unable to commit to best line through a corner and knocking seven bells of s**t out of the car is not a recipe for success Evil or Very Mad .
Whats been done is I have taken a a pair of 16V heads and mated them with a 1350block overbored to give me 1399cc. After a lot of buggering about finding whether it will all go together, it will. Dave at Mech-motorsport in Cheltenham has done the final engine build for me just to remove any errors I might have made and he has now finished Very Happy .
Hopefully collection is this weekend and then its strip car down and convert fuel sysytem from carbs to fuel injection. Target is to have car running by early in new year.
Will keep you all posted on whether there is a nice crackle Laughing or a big bang Shocked Crying or Very sad when the ignition button gets pressed.
Thanks again to all those who have offered help, advice and just as importantly parts

Regards rsfruitbat Cool
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Alan
Alfasud


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Slovenia - Ljubljana

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice project, i would like to see how the 16v heads fit the 1350 block.
Are all the water passages in the same place?

Do you have some pictures of the project?
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Kidderminster

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blocks being different was initially a concern. The only differences I found were to remove the 8V cam belt tensioner stud, drill and tap hole for thermostat housing.
What is different is the head gaskets. On the 8V ones I used from the 1490 engine only the lower waterway holes from head to block were opened up but on the 16V gaskets there are additional holes in the upper passageways to allow waterflow through here aswell. I modified the 8V gaskets to suit.
Special pistons were made to get the bore that I wanted and to accomodate the new stroke and compression chamber in the head. Imagine an 8V piston but with the 16V piston cut-outs.
Unfortunately I havent got pictures and dont know how to put them on if I did.
Hopefully within the next 6 weeks it will be running so I will update people on how it is performing. Alternatively I may be be after councelling and support.

PS thanks ADMIN for the section title change Very Happy . Perhaps this might get a few more contributors to this section?

Regards rsfruitbat Cool
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hugh jinjin
Alfasud


Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good luck Ade, have you been down to ahm for the gearset yet ? and if so what's it like.
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: Kidderminster

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gearset has been received but I dont think I am up to installing it. I hope it does provide the improvements I am after.
In rallying that first / second gear hole was always a flaming nightmare to work around. You need the tight twisty stuff to exploit the handling and then it keeps bogging down in the gearchange. I used to end up deliberately slipping clutch to keep engine on boil. This is one of the reasons I got your uprated clutch to give me a bigger safety factor. All in all it looks fine but too be honest I know b****r all about gearboxes.
Will keep you updated

rsfruitbat Cool
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Eddie_W
Alfasud


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 74
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not familiar with 16v's but don't they have exrta oil drains from the camboxes as compared to an 8v?
Regards Eddie
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 241
Location: Kidderminster

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddie W
Ended up getting a 16V block an 8V 1.7 block and a 1350 block sat on my bench at the same time. Could find no oil / water gallery differences. Headgaskets are different for 16V but mainly centered around the water galleries. As cc increases then the water galleries in the head gasket get opened up.
Extra oil drains in 16V heads are at bottom so have just used 16V sump. Engine has been put together professionally now and he couldnt find anything obvious either. Just waiting to fit and find out how it goes.

rsfruitbat
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irs buggy
Alfa Arna


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
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Location: durham

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: dizzy questions???????????? Reply with quote

can you look at my thread and give advice please????
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: Kidderminster

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It lives Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

132bhp at the flywheel at 6900rpm Twisted Evil
98bhp at the wheels
100lbs / ft torque between 5500 and 7500rpm

Dave at Mech-repairs thinks cams are a bit wild for a 1400 suggested that 270 deg cams and some head work will produce same or more power at lower rpm and increase torque throughout. Maybe this winter Rolling Eyes ?

Pleased with result Laughing

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Admin
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Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 1223
Location: Stafford, UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Any chance of scans of the dyno graphs with details of the gearing / wheel sizes / tyre sizes?

All the best

Keith
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

was planning to sort out that info.Can you advise on how I can post the scanned graph? I might try and copy info onto an excel spreadsheet anyway if that is easier?

Regards rsfruitbat
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Admin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Excel info would be fine. If you scan the graph then you need to upload it somewhere and link to it. If you have no online storage then email it to me and I will upload it.

All the best

Keith
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rsfruitbat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pogress continues slow and steady.

MOTed today and six months tax slapped on the screen. Very Happy

Missus has just took it out for a play so hopefully she will be able to tell me what I all my hard work goes like Confused Rolling Eyes .

Rsfruitbat
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Admin
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Interesting road car!

All the best

Keith
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rsfruitbat
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Mr Meldrew would say " I dont believe it!!!!"
There I was letting the car warm up gently while I put the bin up, put out the recycling, moved the missus car out the way so I can take the car for a run. Everything going smoothly. Climbed in the car and started reversing it out of the garage and it stalled. Only problem is the damn thing wont now restart Evil or Very Mad Crying or Very sad .

Fuel pressure is fine, 50psi.
plugs are wet so its getting the go juice in.
got a spark but the guy said it was orange and not white?

When you crank it is fairly dead unless you put accelerator down then you can hear it spitting back through carbs Confused .

So getting a new crank sensor to try.
If that dont work it'll be the coil pack next.
In the mean time I am going to try and get hold of the MBE software and make a comms link to the brain so hopefully it can tell me whats wrong.

At worst I suppose it is back on the dolly and a trip to Cheltenham again. Crying or Very sad Sad

This car is definately female. It does what it wants, when it wants Laughing .

Any advice appreciated

rsfruitbat
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baldy
Alfasud


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: coil pack Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that bad luck!! what coil and leads did you use in the end? I also need to get one of my head gaskets done as its leaking water.
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the moment it is running on the stuff the ECU came with so its a coil pack off a fiat Brava 1.2, and a crank sensor off a ford. Changed that last night and didnt fix problem Crying or Very sad .
Managed to get a copy of the MBE software off the net and if I can get a comms lead made up I am going to have a look and see if I can see what signal its missing.
Hopefully this will be cheaper as otherwise I can see the haystack becoming quite expensive in order to find this needle.
I suspect coil pack will be the next thing I replace.

rsfruitbat Sad
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rsfruitbat
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replaced crank sensor and no joy Sad Sad

Coil pack I suppose is next. More money Evil or Very Mad

I have managed to get the MBE ECU software and taken a look at the map but there is nothing obvious. Throttle pot numbers change when you touch the accelerator, RPM no changes when turning over, battery volts look fine. To be honest I havent got a b*****y clue what I am looking at or for Confused .

I sense a trip back to the rolling road coming on.

Although down the shops for a box of matches is tempting at the moment Twisted Evil .

Rsfruitbat
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has turned out that the trigger wheel ahs been the problem. Had dowelled it on with a role pin but it must ahve sheared when the front nut was tightened.
The trigger wheel now has three solid dowels holding it on.
Unfortunately as it must have moved initially a small amount the ignition timing is all out so it is back to mech-repairs to set that back up.

Better it happened now than on a stage I suppose.

rsfruitbat
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

How does it attach?

All the best

Keith
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trigger wheel is a machined front pulley. The front lip is given 36 slots and then one "tooth" is removed. This gap is then used to help the brain identify where TDC is. What I did was to have the front camshaft belt pulley drilled to take a roll pin. I thought it would be sufficient but as the front nut is tightened to 100lbs/ft it appears it wasnt. I have now had three solid 2mm dowels put in the front pulley and it appears to have held this time.
AHM do a special spacer that replaces the one that fits in between the two cambelt drive cogs but it isnt cheap.

rsfruitbat
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RedAlfa
Alfa Arna


Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

This engine use solid tappets our hydraulic??
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine uses solid tappet conversion from AHM.
Wasnt sure about safe limit for hydraulic. It was suggested that they might go to 7500rpm. Wanted capability to go to 8500.

rsfruitbat
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rsfruitbat
Alfa Sprint


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres a question maybe one of the racers can answer.
Using a series 1 or 2 33 shell there isnt a lot of space between engine and radiator, especially not if you want to run with the belt covers on.
Has anyone tried fitting Pacet / kenlowe type fans?
I was thinking about seeing if I could fit a pair in front of the rad, behind grill and bumper blowing through rad and mount oil cooler where fan used to be.

Anyone got any thoughts?

rsfruitbat
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Oggie
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure i spoke to adie h about fitting kenlowe fans from a 205 i believe , is your oil cooler fitted to the front nearside of the rad like mine?.
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