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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Update since last journey, I got a friend to tow my car from Horley to Horsham last week and planned to work on it there, but as all my tools are in Brighton and because of the journey each time I thought I’d tow it back to Brighton.
Another friend “green cloverleaf pat” who now owns a 145 2.0L TS kindly offered to tow me back.
Last night, on our way down the A23 just after Handcross, whilst being towed, Pat flashed his brake lights, signalling for me to brake, which I did. We were on a downward slope and I was thinking we are going a little quick. Next I saw pats brake lights come on as well and then it looked as if he was pulling over, I was thinking why? were going to fast to pull over, I then herd tyre squeal as he started going sideways and thought SH*T he’s going to crash and pull me into the trees and I’m going to go into the back of him and mess up his car and its going to be my fault as I asked him to tow me, arghh!!!
This didn’t happen as the towing bar had snapped off his car and I pulled my car onto the side of the road and ran up to where he was already out of the car talking to his brother, obviously a little shaken up but ok.
What I saw next was not what I expected, regarding the damage to his car. I expected to see a deployed airbag; broken window, square rims, and a caved in front end.
There was none of this, much to my relief.
The car had come to rest in-between two small tree like bushes and the front bumper was resting on one.
We tried to get the car out by putting branches under the front wheels but to no avail, thinking he was stuck you would not believe what happened next.
An AA flatbed truck turned up, two guys came out, saying that they saw my car further down the road and thought they would stop and then they saw pats car and thought we might be pinching stuff off it, so they stopped to be nosey. Then another AA flatbed turned up, had a chat and he went on his way. The AA guys winched pats car out and apart from a few light scratches and a bent up towing eye receptacle, there appeared to be no damage.
The AA guys said that someone up there was looking down on you tonight and I was very happy for him.
The police then turned up, had a quick chat, obviously pleased that they didn’t have to get involved and went on their way.
The AA guys suggested that I let my car coast downhill to the next turn off, with them behind with their lights on and pat behind me. They then put my car on the flat bed and said if they get a job they would have to unload my car at the nearest petrol station or lay-bye.
Pat followed in his car, what he was thinking to himself I don’t know.
We managed to get my car home, I asked the AA guys to follow Pat and I to the nearest petrol station and id give them some money for their assistance and kindness, very nice men, very, very nice men.
After they had left we looked over his car and could not see any further damage, Pat said that he doesn’t think he will be doing anymore towing in the near future and explained what happened from his point of view, along with a few expletives, which I shall omit.
Where pat indicated for me to brake, he was already coasting and picking up speed, thinking we were going to fast he braked as well and the weight of my car pushed his rear right side out to the right as the towing bar was on my front left and his rear right side. At this point he was going sideways down the road, half on the verge and half on the road. I had gone past him at this point, he said he can’t remember if he tried to turn into the slide or not, as it all happened so quickly. He then slid onto an asphalt turn off, where the car straightened up and headed for the trees/bushes, where he braced himself for a huge impact, he said he thinks we were doing 60 or 70 nutter!!!

Pat gave me a lift home and we looked at my car, I was not so lucky, but happy for him. My bumper now sits 4inches to the right, as you face the front, there is damage to both wings and the towing eye is a funny shape, pulled out and stretched and half impaled in the bumper.
All in all, not a good experience but could have been so much worse.

Here’s where it all happened, put the following into co-ordinates into Google maps 51.046052, -0.200088

Pictures to come, towing bar is simuler to this

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x2 33 16v
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lee16v · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject:

What a nightmare you've had recently. Glad you are all ok though and hope you can put your car right.

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

tell me about it, thanks
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greencloverleaf pat · Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: work

hi alan we were very lucky last night and i did c### myself when the car spun round ,no more towing for me. Shocked

here is a pic of my car without damage as i was a very lucky person not to have a smashed up 145.

p.s alan feel bad your bumper is damaged sorry mate.

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

thanks bud, im just glad there was no damage to your car and that we are both able to laugh about it.
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paulhide · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:22 am Post subject:

Jeeeeezzz Al Exclamation

What fun you're having Shocked

Let me know when you need a hand and I'll come over.
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johnboy · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject:

HI Alan

not good man,glad you two are ok.as for your bumber.it will be your bumper mounts.you should be able to push it back into place me thinks Wink

regards john
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Thanks guys, feeling down about the whole thing, trying to put on a smiley face. Not had a chance to have a look at the car yet as the weather is horrible, i think the wing braces are bent aswell. I got some bad pics.

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john 33_16v · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject:

Nightmare stuff Al.

At least no-one got hurt.

John
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dave · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: re towing

glad your both ok
me and paul have had fun or not fun towing
damaging my transit connect rear bumper with fixed towbar
long story but highly dangerous think best kept between me and paul
our last towing experince put me of towing to
also our mate steve
i towed a p4 for steve gatwick to brighton on fixed towbar behind my hitop transit
also
dont think steve has forgivin me for draging him down a hill in caterham i was going to fast and he was trying to slow me down but to know avail

best is trailer or get recovery etc

the best i did was how to get alfa from harich to gatwick it was stuck in gear
well get lift to harich buy car call recovery as car had mot and tax trouble was the recoverty turned up so quick as was round corner i hadnt finished filling out v5c but then had 4 hour ride in recovery truck back to gatwick but was worth it you had engine out of that car big al
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greencloverleaf pat · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: car

hi dave how are you hope lives going well for you mate Smile

,me and al had a lucky escape on the tow bar incident (me more than him).
do you have another alfa yet or are you on the lookout for one .
i now have a green cloverleaf sud ti that im in the process of restoring and may be getting some parts from paul at migels garage in charlwood anyway nice to hear from you and have a good christmas and everyone else on here from patrick. Very Happy

.

ChrisC · Alfa Sprint Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 152 Location: Frome

When you have that bumper off be sure to check out the state of the chassis where the towing eyes attached to - hope its all ok.

When the RAC tried to tow my sprint onto a flatbed following the slave cylinder dying the moment they put the towing eye under load it just came straight off the car! it was at that moment I decided perhaps its time to sell...
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tvatavuk · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:

Hi all
I'm glad that everyone is ok while at same time sad on damaged AR part of corse.
Never had experiance with towing bar as I only used towing rope on numerous occasions. More then once I was wondering how much easier safer it would be to use bar instead of rope but now I see it isn't so.
Posts you wrote have been real eyeopener, tnx.
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paulhide · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject:

Yes, but I think they were going rather fast. Speed limit with bar I think is supposed to be about 30mph. I have had alot of experience with Dave Peters with rope and bar. With a bar you don't need good brakes, but you have practically no vision if being towed by a van. A rope puts more strain on both vehicles with constant pulls on the rope and you can run over the rope if not careful, which is fun. Shocked

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bobbber · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject:

I've done quite a lot of towing/being towed myself over the years (after all... I've had a few alfas!).

I don't like the bar idea, unless you're pulling something light with something heavy and even then I can see loads of ways in which you could get into trouble because of it.

The rope is fine as long as you think long and hard about how the rope acts and when it is taught and slack etc....

At the end of the day towing is all about taking it SLOWLY.

Bob Cool

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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

I have had experience being towed with rope a few times and fixed bar twice. Apart from my last experience with fixed bar I preferred the fixed bar. You don’t have to worry about rope going slack and as long as you drive slowly and the person towing changes gear slowly and smoothly and when driving downhill allows the person being towed to do all the braking you should be fine. The only thing that takes getting used to is how close you are with fixed bar, you cant see a thing, apart from their rear bumper.
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stedee · Alfa 33 Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 364 Location: brighouse

sorry about your car

i once got my mate to tow me from brighton to wolverhampton throught central london - his idea not mine, anyway the battery was dead on my car so we swapped batteries and bump started his so i could have power for the electrics and wipers - it was raining.
anyway at rushour in the middle of central london my mate stalls it - can you imagine we had to unhook the towrope bumpstart his then he had to reverse back and hook me back up, this was all in about 10 metres of space.
i know about braking for the guy in front - its not good in a car with brakes that can only just stop 1 car let alone 2 and on an hill - not good.
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Hey guys.
The weather finally eased up enough for me to work on my car a little today.
I still can’t get the cam covers off!! The drivers side is fouling on the cross member, I think. The passenger side’s bottom bolt, the one that faces from rear to front, is just spinning. It started to undo and then a CRACK! There appears to be no way of holding the nut, as I think it’s moulded into the cover, on the inside,
Q1 any suggestion?
I took out the snapped belt and noticed that both pulleys spin freely.
Q2 I thought that they would have seized for the belt to have failed, or would an increased degree of tightness cause belt failure?
Q3 is there anything else that could cause belt failure, apart from old belts?
I’m a little worried now as I would hate for it to happen again after rebuilding it.
The passenger top cam was easy to turn by one hand, about 90º and the bottom one a little less.
Q4 Can I assume that as there is no resistance that the valves have been bent and are being held off the cam, or is this normal?
Q5 Wouldn’t the16v cam be slightly harder to turn compared to the 8v, I remember the 8v only being able to turn a little before it was hard to turn, as in coming on the cam lobe?
I also noticed that the seemed a lot of play with the good belt, if you pushed on the belt to take up the slack, the belt moved quite freely.
I have read about belts stretching and as the tensioner is locked off when correct tension is acquired the tensioner can’t absorb anymore slack from stretching belts.
Q6 Should it be this loose,
Q7 should belts stretch? Surely you shouldn’t have to re-adjust the tensioners as it’s a pig of a job.
Q8 Is there no way of having the tensions absorb this stretch slack, as in them always being under tension on the belts?
I wait with baited breath, thanks in advance.
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Admin · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:28 am Post subject:

Hi

Think with the 33 it is normally the tensioners failing that take the belts out.

If the pulleys are turning that easily then check they are still securely attached to the cams.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Thanks Keith, I’ve not had a chance to look again as, yup you guessed it, the weather hasn’t been good, I think they are attached as it eventually gets hard to turn in both directions.

Any one got answers for my other questions, as in cam cover bolt spinning?
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x2 33 16v
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

could someone post a picture of the inside of the front cam covers, n/s if possible please, so i can figure out how get it off, due to spinning nut.
Thanks
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x2 33 16v
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ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:10 am Post subject:

hi, if the bolt is spinning the cover is toast anyway. Dont' hesitate to tear it to remove it!
zp

BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

Ok ZeNiTh-PbArM, I was hoping to refit it and leave off the botom bolts, as they're a B%$£&, I'll try and prize that sucker off, weather permitting.
That brings up another question, is it ok to run with no cam covers on?
On my 8v after having fast road cams and ported head work done I ran with no cam covers, both front and rear. It looked much better and I never had a problem with mud or stones getting flicked up. Would the 16v be more or less prone to problems? Having no cam covers is sooo much easier to work on, as in checking pulleys, tensioners, belt tension, engine mount, water pump ect.
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paulhide · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

You can leave them off, but it will take only one piece of foreign debris, like a broken fan belt for instance, to put you in the situation you are now in. Your decision. Confused

Surely all you need is a narrow guage socket for those rear cover nuts?
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BigAl · P4 Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey

hey paul,
I can get to the bolt, but it just spins as the nut inside the cover has rusted to the bolt and as the nut is in the moulded cam cover on the inside i cant get to it to stop it spinning.
I know about the risks re no cam covers but was wondering about the difference in having the 16v (2 cam pulleys) coverless in comparison to the 8v (1 cam pulley) thinking it would be harder/easier for something to get in there compared to the 8v.
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