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BigAl
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: thermostat Reply with quote

does mine need replacing or not???
As you guys know i never take my car above 3k until it is at running temp, and normally takes about 10 mins to get there. Due to the cold weather it takes longer and doesnt quite get there, is this normal. My weekly drive consists of 30 min on the motorway, not above 3k at 60 mph. I would assume that the thermostat should regulate the temp no matter what chill factor is put on the radiator but i'm not sure as my car has done this ever since i have owned it. What are peoples experiences after fitting a new thermostat? My coolent is new, last year and was still clear blue when i put it back in when i did my head.
I remember my mums old car having to have cardboard put in fornt of the radiator in the winter.
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bobbber
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical "stuck open" thermostat failure Al.

Replacement is by taking the inlet manifold off. An hours job if the pipes cooperate! Laughing

Bob
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eagle3
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've managed to change it without removing the manifold on an 8v I.E. with pas. Removing the bonnet is necessary though and it is a bit fiddly.

Maybe on a 16v it's too tight.

Putting a bit of card over the radiator helps a bit as a short term solution. But leave the fan side clear.
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bobbber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then you have the fingers of Mr Tickle! Laughing
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr tickle lol
I was thinking that no matter how cold it is out there it should heat up in the same time, just weird that it does get to running temp and heater is hot, another thing to add to my list.
The last one i did i ended up breaking a hope clip and was late for training, had to walk a mile to the shop and it started raining.
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Ben_nz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My s2 1.7QV eventually reached almost-operating-temperature when it had a bad thermostat. I thought the thermostat was good until I replaced the definitely-faulty one in my s2 1.5TI and saw how much faster the car warmed up!
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bobbber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to the flat 4 design of the engine, it won't ever heat up as quick as a straight or 'v' engine. There's a large area of forward facing metal which acts as a heatsink and is directly in contact with in-coming air-flow.

My 2cv had a similar design (albeit 2 cylinders!) and that was just air cooled.

Ben, what you had I'd describe as a "lazy thermostat"!

Bob
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john 33_16v
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car may have an iffy thermostat too then, takes a while to warm up.

I guess it's better to have it stuck open than stuck shut Rolling Eyes

My brother had a (lovely) Volvo Amazon many years back, and it had a roll down blind between the rad and the grill for cold winter months (like they have in Sweden). Can you imagine a modern 2 litre car with that much space under the bonnet! You could practically climb in and stand next to the engine for maintenance!

John
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johnboy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine heats up no problem, mite be the 7800rpms bigal.what do you think? Laughing joking aside.as bobbber said they do take some time,but not that long! i think your to kind to your 33 tho. you can give it the beans when there's heat in the engine Wink .just not cold. you need to go to spa Wink
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, i cringe at the thought johnboy, i just cant do it, even though its frustrating.
I think i posted before that it takes 23 mins to get to running temp at idle.
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe.....
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johnboy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigAl wrote:
lol, i cringe at the thought johnboy, i just cant do it, even though its frustrating.
I think i posted before that it takes 23 mins to get to running temp at idle.
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe.....


lol
ive had the 16v in my car for six year's now,three trips to spa. lots of oil changes. just bloody drive it man. sorry the merlot's kicking in now Laughing
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do eventually Laughing must get round to changing it as my fuel economy has dropped dramatically now its cold
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Admin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigAl wrote:
I was wondering how long the oil takes to get to temperature, as we only see the water temps, if i could be convinced that i could cane it because the oil is up to temp before the water temp is, then maybe.....


Oil is likely to take FAR longer than the water to get up to temperature.

The flat 4 engine does have a pretty large surface area to help it keep cool. Put it this way, on an Sprint I drove it gently (50~60mph) down the motorway with no working water pump (pump seized and shredded the belt) without it seriously over heating. With that much cooling you can see why the thermostat makes so little difference.

All the best

Keith
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith,
i had a waterpump seize, i had to keep pulling over and open the bonnett to let the engine cool down as the temp shot up, i was driving carefully as well. I will continue to do what i do.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey guys do both drain plugs on each head remove the same amount of coolent and if i drain only one side, which side should i do, will this be enough to lower the coolent level to remove the thermostat?
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Ben_nz
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd always remove both drain plugs. That way I can take the opportunity to wash as much muck out of the cooling system as possible, particularly concentrating on the heater core. You might not need to do this if your cooling system has been better maintained over its life..
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bobbber
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always do both Al... don't do what I did though. Remove the RIGHT plugs!

Bob
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok guy, i will take off both correct plugs, my coolant is clean and doesnt need replacing, just need to get thermostat and wait for a warm day Rolling Eyes
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst waiting for my thermostat, from my local small business car shop, i was thinking of clamping one of the radiator hoses, to simulate a closed thermostat, until it is up to running temp, which hose needs to be clamped?
I was told something along the lines, to check a thermostat is working properly, only one of the hoses will warm up from cold and the other will remain cold??
Can someone clarify this please?
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eagle3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think clamping hoses is not really a good idea. You'd be better off blocking the radiator air flow away from the fan for the time being.

The problem is the thermostat doesn't close hermetically below 80C so you can never get up to 80C if there's air flowing through the radiator.

Sure you can block the flow physically temporarily to get it to 80C, but you'll have to unclamp the hose to stop it overheating. As soon as you start driving the temp will drop back to 50-60C.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít have a problem with taking the clamp off once its up to running temp, Laughing quicker I hope with a clamp on the correct hose. The car does get to running temps, although slowly. It does this when idling as well so putting cardboard isnít what Iím after, thanks anyway.
so any idea on which hose??
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eagle3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fat pipe that goes from the rad to the thermostat I suppose.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will give it a try Laughing
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to let you guys know that alfa part no 60504230 is common to fiat as well.
so i will be ordering it from a fiat dealer as all my alfa dealers seemed to have died a sudden death
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone know if the thermostat will come off without damaging the gasket? I could only order a pack of 5 gaskets!! I cant remeber getting any gaskets last time i replaced a thermostat.
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