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Flywheel / clutch questions

 
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Flywheel / clutch questions Reply with quote

I have a 16v modified engine with over 160bhp, not sure exactly, the guys who race prep these engines to class f get about 160bhp. My engine has that work done, plus cat cams, vernier pullies, omex 500 ecu, trumpets and larger injectors.
The car is stripped out, no interior, no sound deadening and will have a 1.5 sud gearbox fitted with no overdrive running on 195 50 15 & later possibly 13 / 14" wheels.
I am looking at fitting a lightened flywheel and have an ally one that i can buy, it just needs a ring fitted for the flywheel sensor. The owner said that on an 8v with about 130bhp the clutch/flywheel was at its limit and we spoke about using a 145/6 flywheel due to the larger clutch.

1. at what power point will a standard clutch start to fail on a 16v 33
2. whats the weight of a 16v 33 flywheel
3. whats the weight of a 145/6 flywheel
4. what weight is good to go down to?
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..uhm..from EPER spare catalogue:

alfa 33 16v flywheel (code 60504550) 7800 gr

alfa 33 8v i.e. 1.5-1.7 before 3-92 6650 and 6600 gr,
(probably without ring for crank position sensor trigger
teeth, as 33 carbs version; carb version also is 6650 gr)

alfa 33 8v i.e. 1.5-1.7 after 3-92 same of 33 16v, 7800 gr
(with the ring for the sensor)

alfa 33 8v i.e 1.3 7700 gr (with the ring for the sensor)

alfa 145/146 8v flywheel 1.3/1.6 7700 and 7800 gr

alfa 145/146 16v flywheel (code 60588325) 6800 gr
(probably having the rings of teeth for sensor and
starter motor with the same alignment you have on 33 16v )

The 6800 gr version is probably a nice bolt-on upgrade,
but I read about drastic modification of -3 kg
(starting from the heavy one version of 7800 gr)
without affecting too much idle regularity
(sorry I can't no more find the source);
so probably -2 kg is safe in normal use.

Ps: maybe you already know weight removed on
the more external parts of the flywheel is safe and
'counts' more on reducing angular inertia than if removed
near the center (where is in practice not useful remove
material and also dangerous because you can introduce
some risk of new vibrational modes and fatigue failure)..

Here some ideas about, from one who did it Very Happy
http://alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/catalog.html

here a photo of his modified 16v flywheel:
http://alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/photo.html

(nice because modification it is done without holes,
not adding aerodynamics resistance at the flywheel)
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, now even more confused lol Smile http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/339178-flywheel-clutch-questions.html#post4820872
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..uhm..is a rebus..
reading the EPER catalogue it seam that for 145/146
16v (but also for 8v) there was 2 different kits for clutch:

- before 06-94 unknow diameter (for 16V: alfa code 5894164)
- after 06-94 200 mm diameter (for 16v: alfa code 5894980 - 5800 gr valeo)

(kits for 8v are about 1 kg less heavy, so another good
reason on a 16v for removing safely material from the flywheel..)

..but the flywheel code seem it remains the same for both clutch kits..
..may be the 16v 145 flywheel not only is less heavy but it
can use clutch of different (bigger) diameter?

(I imagine also 33 16v flywheel can be machined enlarging
the clutch area to be similar the 145/146 one if necessary
for a particular clutch kit)
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it gets more confusing:)
Has anyone done the 145/6 flywheel conversion with a larger clutch?
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.. Very Happy

I'm wrong or in this photo the clutch area
does seam modified (enlarged)?

http://alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/photo.html
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile
I have no idea, i do not have a normal 16v to look at.
I collect my 1.5 sud box soon and thought whilst fitting it i could get a lightened flywheel fitted, want to get it right.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that the 145/6 flywheels sensor ring is different to the 33's and if fitted to a 33 will run bad.
Picked up a spare 16v 33 flywheel the other day, dropping it off today to be lightened and balanced.
Waiting for a price from http://www.ttvracing.com/AlfaRomeoflywheel.html
And may get it next year Smile
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Oggie
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weight of the old flywheel is 7.5kg, TTV lightened flywheel to take standard clutch is 5kg, drove my car today with new flywheel and can feel better response from engine and feels quicker to pick up the revs.
TTV race flywheel requires race clutch ( no good for road use) is nearly half the weight again.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He he Smile
Just took delivery of my flywheel Smile
Will change it in 2 weeks me thinks
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitting Flywheel tomorrow Smile
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow!!!
How much fun?!
2nd gear feels like 1st gear used to lol, I need to sort the front out to get some grip in 1st
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Ian M
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Convert to 4WD Al Wink
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if you are being serious Smile
way too much extra weight, p4's are slow in comparison.
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Bobkelso
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BigAl..well done..
You have lightened and balanced a 16v 33 flywheel
or you have picked a new "racing "one?

What weight is the flywheel you have now?
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bobkelso,
I bought a billett steel one, not the full race one though Smile it is 5kg, 2.5kg lighter than the standard one Smile
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Ian M
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigAl wrote:
Not sure if you are being serious Smile
way too much extra weight, p4's are slow in comparison.


Well go on a diet Al

Think about it, while your sat there in a cloud of smoke transferring all your rubber onto the tarmac the P4 is down the road and gone.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying not to eat all the pies, but they taste sooo good Smile
yeah but i would catch it and then pass it Smile
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Ian M
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to face up to the truth Al
You have ruined your car Rolling Eyes
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say ruined, I say nearly finished.
It is going to be a trackday car Smile which is what I've had planned for it for a long time.
As with everything modified, one is never quite finished Smile
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Ian M
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you think about it, when on track you really won't need to worry about 1st gear traction anyway.
If you were going racing then you would have to address it.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I been thinking of traction controll via an omex 600 ecu if the race front end and / or tyres doesn't sort it, will prob need to add different hub / driveshaft for the sensor Smile

I'm sure the racers with a 1.2 box dont have problems with 1st gear Smile
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