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INA - LUK alternative hydraulic lifters / tappets alfa 33

 
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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: INA - LUK alternative hydraulic lifters / tappets alfa 33 Reply with quote

Hi, working on spare heads of alfa 33 1.3 1991
I found not so perfect hydraulic tappets.

My question is which INA hydraulic tappets to buy,
(actually INA seems to be is in the LUK group)
as original tappets from Alfa (code 60623146, previous old code 60513941)
are long life but heavy (76gr) and expensive (20-25 euro each),
INA tappets are less expensive but there are more type to select.

What I already found in forums,

- the useful experiences of Brit01, ZeNiTh-PbArM and others:

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6979&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=34544&sid=67a26e711c25949d3588687c3bdabc05
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=34176&sid=fd54edc77317b54761b8be5e007b2929
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/276414-hydraulic-tappets-information-please-3.html
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1094732/page3
http://www.vr6forum.eu/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=200227

- PDF with figures of INA lifters we are talking about:
http://www.audi100-online.de/Technik/Tips___Tricks/Warnhinweis-INA-Hydro-420002210_4310SE_DE.pdf

- LUK-INA on-line catalogue, there you can have actual spare LUK-INA codes corresponding to old INA codes:
http://toc.luk-as.de/toc/en/DC0C7E8FD59392B6D8CEC0F5D1BCFAFE.srv?view=VIndexFramesetJsp

http://toc.luk-as.de/toc/it/AEA5748E0F8076BF0C5F7D128CEF7B1F.srv;jsessionid=AEA5748E0F8076BF0C5F7D128CEF7B1F?view=VIndexFramesetJsp

- link where they say there are many type of different lifter:
http://www.schaeffler-aftermarket.it/content.schaeffler_as.it/it/luk_as_products/engine_aa/valve_train_systems_aa/mot3210_aa/mot3211_aa/mot3211_aa.jsp

----
On Ebay are easy to find these tappets, generally used in VW, Audi, Skoda, etc:

- INA of 56gr,
actual/new INA code is 420 0043 10 (the old one was F-46516.72, the one used by Brit01);
the VW code is 050 109 309 H (and other similar codes starting with 050 but with the last part changed)
a set of 8 will cost about 100 euro with expedition;

- INA of 68 gr,
actual/new INA code is 420 0022 10 (the old one was F-46516.30),
the VW code for this type of tappet is 034 109 309 AD,
a set of 8 will cost about 60 euro with expedition

(and INA 420 0044 10 ( VW 034 109 309 P) seems to be a bigger version of 420 0022 10,
with a diameter of 35,5 mm instead of standard 35 mm, good for a total rebuild of a head)


Now I have hesitation between 420 0043 10 (50-56gr) and 420 0022 10 (68gr)
because I’m not sure that the light 56gr version with new code is comparable to the old code light version
used by Brit01 (that was still lighter, 48-50gr), and the PDF with the figures I linked say quite hard that
420 0043 10 and 420 0022 10 are functionally different and should not be confused
(maybe they have different stoke of the inner chamber, or different internal leakage rate, or some other minor parameter),

I suspect they are only marginal different, and both can be used in the 33 boxer,
but I try to have a second opinion, for example, someone have founded a recent INA/VW/Alfa
spare equivalence table?
I’ll be interested to find if for our boxer INA it-self suggest the 56gr or the 68gr version
or the alfa/VW equivalence suggest for our boxers VW code 050 109 309 H or VW code 034 109 309 AD...
Shocked


Here +1 for INA 420 0022 10:
http://www.nanodatex.com/parts/part/alfaromeo-60623146.html

But also +4 for another (!) INA code , 420 0056 10
(expensive, about 23euro each, and not available on ebay;
on LUK-INA catalog on line it is for alfa 33, but it is also dismissed):
http://www.findpart.org/part/alf-60623146
http://it.eparts24.eu/partscatalogue/420-0056-10-ina-punteria,11-420~10056~110-0204-01216--420005610~2INA.aspx
http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/ina/420005610.html
http://www.tuttiautopezzi.it/2384036
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Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 190
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I measured the hydraulic parts of INA 420 0043 10 (the light one, 56gr)
from a 1:1 print of the figure with cut in half tappets in the PDF
and it seams very similar to alfa original tappet:

- the center hydraulic cylinder with inner coil extended
is between 19mm and 23mm height measured from tappet surface,
(i.e. the space that will be from cam to valve steam);
19mm is the height I can measure on used original tappet
(probably not full extended);
from the figure you see also that hydraulic cylinder
can be compressed by 5-6 mm,
so it seam to be able to manage also
important play due to valve seat wear out.

Actually I'm also quite confident it have the same
characteristics of the previous INA old code F-46516.72,
the one positively used by Brit01, so it should be ok.

About the INA 420 0022 10 (the 68gr one)
cut in half in the picture:
probably the hydraulic part is similar in height to the 56gr one,
but from the picture I cannot have confirmation
( cylinder height in the picture of the cut in half tappets
is 18-21 mm but it seams that inner coil is not full extended).

So I was to order a set of new INA tappets for with first motor
in preparation when today the head specialist managed to
save old original tappets with relative simple work:
by removing 0,2 mm of material with rectify machine
he renew the surface perfectly (alfa original tappets
are quite thick, at least 2mm, it can be done safely),
after that he empty them from old oil, put in new oil
and is actually doing an overnight hold-pressure test
before close the complete rebuilt heads.

I have a second motor to be head rebuilt this summer,
I hope to find similar quite good tappets,
instead if tappets will be more signed than 0,2/0,3mm,
I'll test a set of new from INA.

In the while every information about compatibility or
better measurements (I was in a hurry in the head
specialist garage when I measured the alfa tappet)
is well accepted! Very Happy
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