Alfa Pages Forum Index Alfa Pages
A forum for help with the Alfasud And Alfa 33
 

non starting 33. starter motor exciter wire not got enough..
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alfa Pages Forum Index -> Boxer Workshop
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:12 pm    Post subject: non starting 33. starter motor exciter wire not got enough.. Reply with quote

Hi Guys and Dolls.
My 33 wont start unless I turn the ignition on and use a wire direct from the + of the battery to the exciter wire on the starter motor.
I have cleaned the contact on the starter motor and if I connect my DMM to it, when I turn the ignition I am getting 12v.
I assume I am getting a current drop but need help in where to start, thanks.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be faulty ignition key switch.
_________________
Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think so as I'm getting 12v on the exciter wire when it's turned
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, but the point is, you measure 12V at no load, i.e. with the wire unplugged from the starter motor.
If you measure voltage while the wire is connected to the solenoid, there will be current flowing and any resistance upstream will cause a voltage drop proportional to the current.
With no current (disconnected) there is no voltage drop

Try shorting at the ignition switch and see if it cranks ok

regards,
zp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just put a replacement switch on my C15 diesel van. Starting was a bit hit and miss, getting gradually worse. Pre-heating was fine but the exciter bit(last turn of the key) was obviously problematic.

I had a lead in the car to connect the exciter terminal direct to the battery + terminal to start it if it didn't want to. New(ish) switch sorted it.
_________________
Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I unplugged the ignition switch block connector and reconnected it a few times.
Seemss ok atm
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything is all good, not had a starting problem since Smile
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it did it again. Evil or Very Mad
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you get hold of another ignition switch + key(s)?

All but the latest series 3 have a 3 pin electrical socket I believe. My 1994 one has a four pin socket for anti-theft device.
_________________
Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al,
I have 3 spare ignition switches and steering column. They are all from series 2 so if yours is 3 pin set up they could work.
Shout if I can help.
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys, Im not sure if its the ignition switch, as there is power to the exciter wire when turning, although not enough to crank???
Happened again last night Twisted Evil
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you got an aftermarket alarm Al?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but it's not that, been there before lol. there is power to the exciter wire when the key is turned but not enough to crank.

I am not getting email notifications
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only saying because I had the very same issues with mine. I disconnected the immobiliser on the alarm which was basically two wires that cut power to the starter. Never had another problem starting again. Could be worth doing to eliminate it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you had a look inside the solenoid? Not sure you can dismantle on the 33 but if you're getting 12v on the exciter then maybe that tends to a solenoid problem?

Maybe also an amperage problem? Maybe voltage is OK but not enough amps to crank?

Sell it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
paulhide
P4


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1607
Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't sell it. An Alfa 33 beat all-comers today at Croft Racing Circuit. Very Happy
Hope you can sort it Al. Don't know what to suggest.
_________________
Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How annoying. If the starter motor on the 3 is the same as the 2 then I have spare you could borrow to test the solenoid theory. Only problem I am not close.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the suggestions guys.
I have eliminated the alarm by temporarily bypassing it, so that isn't the problem.
I believe there aren't enough amps because when I connect a wire direct from the +battery to the exciter wire on the starter motor, it works.

Are there anymore connections to clean between the ignition barrel and the exciter wire connection on the starter motor?

STILL NOT GETTING EMAIL NOTIFICATIONS Sad
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's the case Al then simply rewire the exciter wire via the ignition switch with an in line fuse. Something is clearly breaking down in the original part of the loom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I been considering that lol but I'd like to get to the cause though
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

If you are looking for the root cause you may want to look for :
1. Harness terminal mating with solenoid tab. Crimp connection to the wire gets oxidized, and the terminal itself can loose clamping force. I had an intermittent non-cranking issue, always in hot condition, which I definitely cured cutting this terminal and crimping a brand new one instead
2. big square connector between battery and heater fan. One wire is the starter one
3. ignition switch square connector below steering column
4. ignition swith itself

regards,
zp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignition switch still favourite with me..
_________________
Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is hard to get to the cause as I only drive once a week and it's intermittent.
I drove today and it started on the first leg of the journey and after putting some fuel in.
On the return journey all was good until I made a stop. then it didn't work.
This time I checked my temp alarm bypass, don't need it when i'm driving it lol and it started.

Lee, this is weird because when the alarm is in use it doesn't cut power to the starter. It will just crank but not start.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

When you checked, did you by chance open the hood? If yes, faulty connections may have cooled down at the same time...

regards,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I parked, turned the engine off, got out for a min, got back in and it didn't start. I opened the bonnet and only moved my bypass connector. I will leave the alarm connected whilst I'm driving from now on.
thanks for all the suggestions guys.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alfa Pages Forum Index -> Boxer Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum