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Removing gearbox on stands

 
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Removing gearbox on stands Reply with quote

Hi all,

I need to replace a clutch on a 8V and don't have the garage with pit at my disposal. I'll attempt to drop the gearbox only with the car on stands.
I'm a little bit worried about the groud clearance required to get the job done. Does anyone happen to have experience in doing this and can suggest how high I need to raise the car in order to get the job done?
Thanks

zp
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john 33_16v
16 Valve


Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 1406
Location: herts, uk

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote










This high to drop engine and box on 16v.

Hope that helps

John
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RFlower
Alfa 33


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 432
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi zp,

I have to replace the Trofeo clutch, which started making terrible rattling and grinding noises, and has been sitting over my pit for a few months waiting its turn.

I didn't know it is possible to remove only the gearbox to get at the clutch.

I believe a workshop in Spain may have changed a gearbox on the Sprint without removing the engine, as he did it quite quickly, but I didn't watch.

Do you lower the back end of the power unit and swing it down to disconnect the gearbox?

Is this easier then removing the whole unit if a pit is available?
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Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)
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paulhide
P4


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1607
Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is supposed to be easier to drop just the gearbox underneath the car, but I've never been brave enough to do this, especially as marrying the two back together can be an effort.
I never jack up the back of the car when I remove the whole unit, but guess you will have to do so for just the gearbox Question
Sorry that's not very helpful, but good luck.
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http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188
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niaugi
Alfa Arna


Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

once i did this only by moving engine block to the front a few centimeters. (had to unbolt gearbox<>engine bolts, engine front pad and a stand below the engine to support it)
it was 146 1.6 boxer, but yours i think is similar.


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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

Thanks for your replies.
I have replaced a number of clutches dropping the gearbox only ; this is easily done on a pit, leaving the engine attached on the front support.
You need to remove the upper gearbox mount before sliding it off.
I have already made a description of the process here : http://alfaimola.free.fr/technique/transmission/embrayage/index.html

This requires quite an amount of ground clearance. Removing the shift lever and support will reduce the overall length of the gearbox by half, thereby reducing the clearance requirement ; yet I wonder how much clearance is required and whether it is within reasonable range to be achieved on stands.

On a 33 the engine cannot be moved forward as the heads don't have sufficient clearance and will hit the bodywork long before the clutch can clear the gearbox mainshaft.

Maybe a combination of ramps and/or stands will be sufficient ; if I fail I can still drop the engine and gearbox although it will be a waste of time and effort!

regards,
zp
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lee16v
16 Valve


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1429
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed the box on mine using ramps (16v and on approx 45cm lift ramps). I undid the rear mount allowing the engine to rock backwards giving the required angle to slip the box off. Harder ro relocate the box on refitting but doable with 2 people or a good jack.
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eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a few pics when I did mine over a pit. Here's one in my photobucket library http://s213.photobucket.com/user/eagle3_2007/media/IMG_1269.jpg.html?o=124

It might be worth digging a hole. Good luck. I think I might drop the engine without the pit. I've done it both ways. It's not too stressful removing the lot.
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Ian M
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 911
Location: Bath Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have dropped the gearbox off a few times in the past.
I put the front up on axle stands and use two trolley jacks, one to support the engine and the other to manoeuvre the gearbox into position to refit.
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RFlower
Alfa 33


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 432
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks zp and others.

As I have a pit and no-one to help me lift the box I'm worried I might bend the layshaft getting it back into place.

Also, judging from the horrible noises, Sod's Law states that there will/might be some damage to the flywheel or bell housing, which could require removing the engine anyway, so I think I'll just drop the whole unit in the conventional way.
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Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Bending the gearbox shaft is next to impossible. I reckon you can struggle though, getting the gearbbox back in. If the splines won't align correctly between clutch disc and shaft, you may have to perform a few attempts before it goes back in.
If you have a pit, you can use a pit jack as well.
The awful noise generally originates from the release bearing grinding against the diaphragm, either because the bearing is stuck or because the diaphragm is badly worn and the bearing has gone through.
Never seen a damaged bellhousing on a 33.

regards,
zp
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eagle3
Alfa 33


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thrust bearing
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/eagle3_2007/IMG_1392.jpg

Diaphragm
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/eagle3_2007/IMG_1393.jpg
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Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok just come across this post. I have just had the gear box and engine out twice in two weeks on my sons car (don't ask). I would drop the engine out. But you do not need to take out form under car. My son worked this out for second refit.

All you need are x3 scissor jacks some a good trolley jack and some axle stands. Oh and some blocks wood.

Support each block either side of sump on jacks and gearbox with a stand and gearbox. Raise car up a bit on stands and bring jacks up to take weight of engine and box. Release all mounting bolts and front cross member abd then carefully raise car up and support on stands. Lower engine and box down on to wooden blocks and can now work / separate the box and engine, change clutch and then do opposite to refit. Days work, but safe and stress free.
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Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry you do need to take exhaust off, remove back box then middle and manifold together.
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paulhide
P4


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1607
Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only undo the exhaust under the engine without splitting it (after removing all the rubber hangers) and then slide it under the driver's wheel (either side of a stand which is put in place after this by jacking at the front first)
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Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good call I will remember.
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Just finished the clutch replacement. I raised the rear on wooden ramps and the front on axle stands. I got the gearbox out and back in without too much hassle. Took 5hrs doing the whole job including gearbox flush.


For the record, the required ground clearance to drop the gearbox is 33cms (some values are easier to remember!).
I don't think the clutch would have survived much longer.


Regards,
zp[/url]
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Johnpm1967
Alfasud


Joined: 21 Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Location: Tewkesbury

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job.
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paulhide
P4


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 1607
Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, good job. Let us know how you get-on putting it back.
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

It is already back in place! The 5hrs I quoted were for the complete job.
Getting the box back in is a little bit tricky, you need to achieve a correct alignment and rotate a little bit for the splines to mate but using one hydraulic jack under the engine and one under the box, paying attention to the respective position and alignment, it's not that hard.

One trick I didn't mention is, you can lower the front crossmember by ~ 20mm unscrewing the four bolts a little bit. This reduces the required angle a lot and the gearbox gets in and out more easily.

regards,
zp
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