Alfa Pages

[92P4]

Does anyone know of anyone who actually makes standard (or uprated) front shocks for the P4?

Mine's a 92 if it makes a difference

G

[tvatavuk]

No one specialy for P4. Oem factory BOGE makes same shocks for all 16v no matter 4x4 or not.
92 makes difference because with start of 93 it was updated strut design with 3 upper mount nuts that had better protecition of shock bearing.
And you're in problem because standard items 16v(4x4) , BOGE or Sachs for 90-92 years are being discontinued, so if you find them you re in luck.
http://webcat.zf-trading.com/index.asp?SPR=4
http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/owx_medien/media348/34801.pdf
http://webcat.sachs.de/index.asp?SPr=4&LASTPAGE=nc2_pdf.asp

For uprated you can go with red or Yellow (sport) KONI inserts that fit into original "only" Boge housing.
Funny thing is that KONI isn't making inserts for P4, some tehnical reason
http://www.koni.fr/catalogue/page.asp?Ident=104582&refModele=VL&NOPAG=7&modele=VL
My guess is that orig shocks weren upgradible with insert, while back shocks made to much travel up down, so it may kill them to fast.

But few people includig me decided to buy and fit those for normal 33 incl 16v of same year.
http://www.koni.com/_cars/_products/catalogue/catalogue.html

86-2448 for front, and 80-2537 for rear.
At moment I have front in garage but haven't mount them yet, while rear are there for last 3 years, any only problem with them so far I could notice is their hissing sound they make compared to what I had before.

Konis are oil type shocks, which means that they can be commpresed all the way down easily, so car actualy stands only on springs, while original shocks were all gas type, which would provide some ground distance more then KONI do, on same springs.
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[Rees Cees]

what tvatavuk tells about KONI shockabsorbers is right. You can´t use them on a lowered car. they are not good for that kind of things. you have to rebuilt them. the shockaborber is to long.
So don´t use them on a lowwered car except that you have them rebuilt.

The rebuilding is not easy.

you have to cut something off om the house of the shok and the piston of the shok has to be shortened.

I use special made Koni´s made by Koni´s racing department in Holland. They cost about 1200 euro each for the front ones and about 1500 euro for the rear ones (that are the best racing shok´s you can get)
But they don´t make them except you order 100-200 set´s in one time!!!!!!!!
So don´t call or e mail them.

[chrisc (not logged in)]

I have a set of standard front shocks for a series 3 with the later type mountings that could be had for free, but unfortunately they are at my lock up on the other side of the country

[tvatavuk]

Better on other side of country then planet, don't you agree
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[92P4]

If you've got them, I'd be very interested in them, even if there's a bit of a wait/travel involved! I'm in Manchester, but go down to Essex fairly regularly.

[tvatavuk]

Chrisc, later in your post means 93-94 wiht 3 upper bolts?
If that is true, 92P4 for you to use it you would need to make changes on chasis to acomodate such pattern.
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[92P4]

I think I have got 3 bolts at the strut top, mine is the cat model, and was registered late 92. I've checked ePer and it shows as the type that aren't available - parts 60561165 (RHS) and 60561164 (LHS).

60561165 is apparently unavailable according to my version of ePer, but I haven't confirmed this with the dealer - their version didn't show it as unavailable.

Interestingly, ePer gives a production date of 04/1991 for my chassis number! Any ideas?

[tvatavuk]

It is easy, open bonet and take a look if there are 3 or 4 hots holding strut
IMOLA 33 had only 3 bolts, but that is not P4.
On the other hand you in U.K. had pretty specific stuff exported there
ePER nor registration book is allways true, or both can be if car took long enough to be exportet to UK.
I my country importers allways do something that it looks like car is year newer then it realy is. So basicly we have a whole buch of cars here that are made between Chrismas and New Year
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[92P4]

BLast!!!! Its 4 bolts :-=(

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

Hi,

The 4-bolt pattern means that the strut bearing is located at the middle of the strut. All 33s produced before end of 91 were fitted with those struts, including the Imola.


After 1992, the factory adopted the upper strut bearing (fiat tipo style) and those had only 3 bolts.

regards,
zp

[tvatavuk]

Never seen or heard of Series 3 Imola with 4 bolts, I'm affraid I would have to see it to belive it.
Anyway what intigues me this last 2 monthis is how dificult would it be to upgrade from4 bolt to 3 bolt solution, because I'm tired of replacing those strut pan bearings every 2 year (bad camber, bad roads...bad driver )
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[92P4]

What do we think of these? Would these make the car really crap to drive on the road?

The seller describes them as follows:

Conversion for Alfa Romeo 33 (all models inc 16 valve), Sprint or Sud with 33 style running gear to coil over front suspension. Kit includes strut units with spherical top mounts and selection of 3 sets of springs along with Koni adjustable inserts. Hardly used

What do we think?

[Martini]

Hi
My 33 has monroe struts mounted that I'm unsure could fit yellow KONI inserts. I've finally got hold of two nice condition BOGE struts for my inserts but both struts are for the same side. It looks as if it's possible to rotate the hub mounts though. Could that be done? The seller doesn't know but says that's no problem on a 164.

I intend to use yellow konis with H&R lowering springs on my -91 16v. Are you saying lowering with koni sports is no good?? Never heard about that.

/Martin

[tvatavuk]

92P4 - It would be great to have them on 33 that is runing most of time on track days.
I don't know how bump/pot hole free are your roads or how confy you like your ride to be.
1. There are no protectors on spirng nor shock that will shield them from mud, salt and other road defrosting chemicals that usualy on roads, which could drasticly impact operation and life span of strut components.
2. Hard strut top mount will mean much more vibrations/stress on chasis especialy strut mount points, so in case of hiting pot hole or something like it at greater speed there will be more damage then before.

Martini, don't worry your KONIs go with Eibach or H&R Springs nicely, even KONI sugests them:
http://www.koni.fr/catalogue/page.asp?Ident=104582&refModele=VL&NOPAG=4&modele=VL
Problems start when you use other Spring that are lower then those, or much harder so in both cases shock travel is smaller then designed/prefered, which leads to premature wear/tear of inner components.
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Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

[92P4]

Is there anything that could be done to make them more road friendly? They actually work out cheaper than buying a pair of standard shocks! I guess that the three different pairs of springs would include some fairly soft ones perhaps? Never driven a car on coilovers before. The suspension on the car at the moment seems very hard compared to how I remember my last P4 being, I think it might have been lowered...

Anyone got any standard front P4 springs going begging?

[tvatavuk]

To make them more road frendly
From what I can think off, if can be done it would be best to mount only those shocks on normal spring, strut top, pan bearing, rubbers...but shock branch on that picture looks very thick compared to original one.
In this state, I don't see much space between spring and shock branch to fit dust/mud protective rubber, maybe one for servo wheel beam could fit.
I'm little bothered by uper strut mount because in this picture it look like it is unibal seting, which would crush on normal road after few hundred or thousand of miles.
imho Best advice about that you could get from their owner.

About hardnes of P4, all shocks with oil in them are much harder when it's cold. Also most of shocks I have tried on 33 16v or P4 when close to end of life or past that point, would be hard on hit but soft on dumpening it.
While new one would much better dumpen first hit, but you could feel beter aftershocks. All except monroe gas-o-matic which I had when I bought P4, those shocks when new would make your tail jumping like in roedo.
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo