Alfa Pages

gritsop · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: Steel braided brake hoses

Hi,

I was wondering if any of you have installed steel braided brake hoses. I have had the original rubber hoses replaced two years ago and nowdays one of the rear ones has enough cracks. It has now stuck my mind to replace all four and go straight for the steel braided ones .

Anyone with experience and opinion on these?

Any input is welcome.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Rich B · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:

I would recommend them - you get a slightly firmer pedal feel and slightly better braking as all the force goes to operate the pistons in the calipers rather than some being lost in expanding the standard hoses.

Its a relatively cheap upgrade (I paid about £60 for front and rear hoses, I think)

Hope this helps

Rich

tvatavuk · Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:20 pm Post subject:

I have OMP steel braided hoses for about 3-4 years, only problem with it is that I haven't found time to put them on car Rolling Eyes

they costed around 60€ back then.
Since they are still ruber hoses just with outer steel reinforcement strings, they'll last same as regular ones.
Main reason to use them is when rubber ones starts to soften/swell under high temp instead of pushing brake cyl/pad to disc.
So you get somewhat stiffer brake pedal when things start to get hot.
Some say
- that they cool better/faster then regular ones.
- others that they look cool
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

Rees Cees · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:25 am Post subject:

you meane this:

I mount them always in racecars. they give a mutch better brake performance than the rubber hoses

gritsop · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Thanks for the photos, really interesting application for racing.
The hoses I have been quoted are the same brandname like yours; Goodridge at 90€.

Thanks for the input.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Serpent33 · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject:

I ran the steel hoses carried by sparco. They worked fine when lousy rubbers are used. When coupled with SO3 Potenza 15's, the extra pressure applied to stop the wheels ruptures the hoses.

Sent to the workshop, they actually said it wasn't the first case. Some failed at the crimps. Wheras, standard once are hardly known for such failure. I personally stuck to the standard once after that.
_________________
Each time I speed I say, "Dear lord, make me fast and accurate..."

tvatavuk · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:

Some of Sparco and OMP products came from same factory.
_________________
Tino Vatavuk
Little black dress which replaced Alfa Romeo 33 S 16v Permanent 4 GMo

Admin · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:17 pm Post subject:

Hi

Braided hoses are often used on bikes (some bikes use them as standard). One thing to watch out for is people using alloy fittings. If you find them with alloy fittings then throw the hoses in the bin and get some decent ones.

Alloy fittings corrode, but tend to do this from the inside where the anodising has been scratched when they are assembled. They then crack and are likely to leave you with no brakes.

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/mikesBrakes.jpg

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/HelensBrakes.jpg

All the best

Keith

Serpent33 · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject:

My observation are as follows. The braided hoses have worked fine on my friends 16V for years. He never use better tyres than Azenis ST115. When drove with these rubbers, The brakes were more than adequate. Pressure applied were reasonable before wheels lock.

After grippier tyres are used, Much higher pressure is applied to reach near lock braking efficiency, which is what I faced. The braking system might not be adequately supporting the increased traction (with the small diameter rotor and little pad surface). Which in this case, over worked the hoses by the extra pressure.

The hoses actually burst right in the middle and splitting the steel braid. It was verified by agent and they were willing to replace me with another set. Plus my Alfa mechanic telling me this is not the first, I have my reserves now about the hose. Unless I am still running 14 inch with normal tyres.

Incident happened when I needed to stop for a red light camera. Jab the brakes real hard and poop! Went straight. Worked fine for normal speeding and less abrupt braking though. And I'm on Tarox rotors and pads. Others might experience differently but I think it was a dangerous situation for me and hope to share.
_________________
Each time I speed I say, "Dear lord, make me fast and accurate..."

Admin · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject:

Hi

I would mostly be worried about the hoses rubbing and that will cause them to top. Quite easy to rub through the braiding and the hose inside has little strength on its own:-

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/colsbrake.jpg

All the best

Keith

RFlower · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:

The discussion about braided hoses caused me to dash out to the back of the garage and check the ones I have on the Sprint (it's off the road at the moment)

They are PTFE with stainless steel braid, and quite small diameter (1/4" or 6.3 mm o/d). The connections are cadmium plated steel, and have no damage, no corrosion after 4 years (but they don't put salt on the roads here).

They don't look as pretty as those anodised ones, but are probably safer. I think I'll try to look up the burst pressure.

I had them made up by a UK hose supplier. Cost was £48.00
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

Sprintervention · Alfasud Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 60 Location: York

I was thinking of fitting some braided hoses and had previously never heard of any issues with them. I guess that aluminium should be avoided looking at those photos! Has anyone had any issues with Goodridge hoses or any that they have assembled themselves using motorsport spec steel couplings and high pressure braided hose?

Incidentally does anyone happen to know what the connections actually are on AR Sprint (car end) and AR 33 16V (ATE front calipers) with rear drums. I know that the threads are M10x1 but are they convex or concave seats on the hoses. Will save me bleeding the brakes to find out.

Thanks
Chris
_________________
1987 Alfa Sprint Veloce

RFlower · Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject:

Just found specs of hoses I ordered for Sprint:

Front hoses: Length 48cm.
One end is male thread (10x1mm), 18mm long, convex seat
Other end is male thread (10x1mm), 10mm long, concave seat.

Rear hose: Length 38cm.
One end is female thread (10x1mm), 10mm deep, concave seat
Other end is male thread (10x1mm), 10mm long, concave seat
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

Sprintervention · Alfasud Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 60 Location: York

Hi,

RFlower, thanks for supplying that info, I guess that I now have no excuse but to make up those hoses now!

I just wonder if that Sprint might be a 1500 with solid front discs or do you have the vented ATE setup (either standard or from later car as mine is) I think that the connectors are actually all the same but just to make sure...

Regards
Chris
_________________
1987 Alfa Sprint Veloce

RFlower · Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject:

Sprint is 1500 Green cloverleaf, brakes are Bendix with solid front discs.

Incidentally, I got rear cylinders from EBC www.needforspeed.co.uk They sent those they had listed for Sprint, which were wrong.
It turned out the ones for 33 were correct.

Regards
Dick
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)