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alferr

my friends, alfa was crunching unbelievably, after putting some thought into it, he drained the gearbox oil, to half way, then filled it up again with automatic transmission fluid!!

he took it for a drive. omg it just went straight into 2nd gear no crunch

If anyone has a problem with 2nd gear crunch try this let me kno how it goes
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wille · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:50 pm Post subject:

Sounds interesting, I think EVERYONE in here has that same problem... Wink

James Granger · Alfa 33 Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 302

I wouldn't try it!

Luciano · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:27 am Post subject:

Yes, I've also did the same to my gearbox!! Its TruE!!! Razz

And now I have an automatic transmision!!!... Shocked

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Alfa Romeo Trentatrè Q4 '94

Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:03 am Post subject:

Yeah till the whole box goes tit's up. You are playing with fire messing about with the oil in the transmission.

Sounds like a very short term fix to me!!

TimoJ · Guest

Hi

Some old Mercedes used automatic trans- oil in normal gearbox. Have heard of using engineoil in it too.
The Sprint gearbox with engine oil went on for years, still would not try it in a good gearbox...

TimoJ

alferr · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: g'box

yeah the sprint gear box lasted for years, why not try it, as soon as i have put the turbo in my 33, i am getting a ceramic clutch put, I will try it and see how it goes then
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Guest · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:00 pm Post subject: OMG!!!!!!!!

I tried some Automatic transmission fluid in my windscreen washer bottle, Works a Treat!!!, the wipers are soooo smooth.... Shocked

Point being if it's not designed to go in there, you dont but it in there!
There is a large number of manufactures that use Dexron2, or dexron3 in their manual transmission, usually rear wheel drive vehicles, front wheel drive vehicle transmission contain a crown wheel and pinion!!!(incase you didn't know). This is where you find Extreeeeem pressures which require some serious Lubricant, ever had a look at Diff oil???? generally a viscosity grade of 90...
Your gearbox may benifit from the use of this oil but didn't you take into acount your diff?
I have seen first hand what Auto fluid does to a 33 gear box, the star gears in the diff bind up and begin to self destruct, it's an awful mess.
customers do the strangest things to their cars, they knew what they did and even went long lengths to drain the fluid and put back in the standard oil to mask their mistake!
Manufactures design engine components with specific lubricants in mind, stray to far from these specifications and you will get horribly burnt.

Just some friendly advice Smile

Matt

alferr · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:50 pm Post subject: rito

right well thanks for that piece of advice in the previous post, wont be doing that
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James Granger · Alfa 33 Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 302

You shouldn't mix oils. Light truck ZF gearboxes (S5-42) can be run on 80W-90, 75W-80 and 75W-85 or even straight 75W or ATF. In temperate climates (north Europe) it's best not to exceed 80W grade which is why 75W-80 synthetic is a good grade to try. ATF also seems to work well in these circumstances reducing shift pressure and noise and generally improving the performance of the box.

Matt's got a good point that it should be GL4/5 as this will stand up to high pressures in a diff as well as not affecting gear and syncro wear. ATF should only be used in gearboxes which don't have a front diff.

Gearbox oil should be changed every 120.000 km at most.

ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:10 pm Post subject: re : engine oil

hi!

it's true that ATF can be put in gearboxes NOT containing a diff (i have been using it in my volvo some time ago over a huuuge amount of kms without any trouble)

for the 33 gearbox, i've been using the specified 80W90, and the gearbox aged well ; 2nd is crunchy, but double-declutching is now instinctive, and no problem.

by the way, i change gearbox oil every 40 000 kms, that's probably why my gearbox has been lasting so long!

regards
zp

Pimp_Dudu · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:43 pm Post subject:

Well can somebody still tell me is they're any other way to "fix" this problem. Ive heard that u can change the whole gear box, now i hear that u can put automatic gear fluid. But isnt they're anything less risky adn less expensive. And what is teh problem?? Is it the syncro system alone or is it something else? Problem is that i got the same damn crunch....and its really annoying..but i aint got that much money...so i need cheap help.

Matt Stolton · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:55 pm Post subject: The problem is the synchro...

The synchros are very fragile in 33/sud boxes. The actual gears themselves are pretty good.

ATF fluid would work, if was not for the diff being in contact and lubricated by the same fluid. ATF will make the gear box slinky, but the diff will wear very quickly, leading to a dangerous wheel lock up, snapping of drive shafts, spill you off the road, and trash the box even more. Use a good fluid of the specified grade (in the handbook, or on the inside of your bonnet on a sticker)

The solution is to replace the synchros that are crunching. The cost of parts is minimal, it is the labour involved in doing it that is expensive. One 'bodge' I've heard of is to swap 5th and 2nd synchros over, as 5th gets little wear due to all the shafts being at similar speeds. However, if you were going to this effort, you might as well replace the worn synchro with a new one.

One avenue to persue would be to consider the revisions made to the 145/6 cars that had boxer engines. It is not as simple as using the synchros from these boxes, or the box itself, as the entire insides are revised, but something may be possible.

Double declutching and being careful with changes, especially into second, is all you can do. Even after a rebuild, the synchros will go quickly after.
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Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

alferr

Pimp_Dudu:

it is possible to drive without the second gear crunching, a good way when changing gear, put foot on the clutch wait for the reves to die down, very slowly into 2nd gear and you feel the gear actually grabbing then put it in.

also there is this oil additive called "ROIL" i can get you some if you are not able to find it. i did some reasearch into it. when you put it in you engine/gearbox, it make lubrication 3 or 4 time better. It doesn't act on the oil, it just uses the oil to carry it around, when i comes in contact with metal it conditions it and and changes the ionic structure or something like that.

A guy had soaked all his engine parts in this just before a drag race, and just after he started the oil pressure dropped and then no oil pressure. after winning the race they took apart the engine, mind you 5.7s 1/4 mile, and there was only little damage to one of the bottom end bearings. which is good for no oil.

his diff would stuff up a lot of time during races, this was fixed when he put "ROIL" in his gear box and diff.

Let me kno if you want me to post this article, it is out of a magazine.

There was a test done on it where using a torque wrench they applied force to a spinning plate, with mobil 1 synth. they reach 1500 lbs on the wrench when they soaked the plate in Roil they tried again with the same oil, and got over 4500 lbs, that is as far as the machine could test.

I am going to give this a try, it cant hurt. if it doesn't work, it doesn't cost that much anyway..
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Maximilian · Alfasud Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 39 Location: London, UK

That ROIL stuff seems to be like Slick50.

If these oils additives are so good, why don't the oil manufacturers put it in the oil. I would assume that it's because they don't work. That magazine probably had some advertising deal with the producers of ROIL. There are quite a lot of websites that say that Sliack50 is a waste of money.

Here's one:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~chris/slick50.html
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1988 Sprint 1.7 QV (35,000 miles)

James Granger · Alfa 33 Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 302

Interesting discussion, but I've never had any problems with my gearbox, which is truely beautiful. Even fast changes are smooth. It is generally nicer than the 147's (apart from the fact that it doesn't like being thrown into first after double-declutching from second on the move).

alferr · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 2:36 am Post subject: ROIL as aposed to SLick 50

Roil not an oil additive as such, i doesn't change the structure of the oil and in fact after running the car for 1 hour there is no trace of it left in the oil or oil filter.. i uses the oil as a carrier to transport it to parts of the engine, instead of taking the engine apart and soaking the parts in it.

i dont know slick 50 let me know what you think
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