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Errol Alfa Sprint
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:42 pm Post subject: few questions |
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Hey everyone! couple of questions
1. Im thinking about supercharging my series 3 16v because i want greater power and forced induction is the only way to go. What you guys think, is this easy to do? Any advice, opnions?
2. What is the compression ratio of a series 3 16v?
3. Does a series 3 16v have an LSD?
thanks _________________ 91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip. |
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Eddie W Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Posts: 375 Location: new zealand
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Errol.
I have thought about this one as well. Having only a 1500, I was thinking of using a blower off a Toyota 4AGZE(MR2 or Levin). Whether this could be geared enough to suit a 1700 16V I am not sure . Ideally a motor should be built specifically to suit with lower compression,oil coolingand modified advance curve. In your case , having an injected motor with ECU control, an after market programmeable unit with anti knock etc would be the way to go. However, I think one of the tricky parts is fitting inthe blower drive pulley on the crank, the xmember may have to be modded to clear. Also the alternator may need a relocate. Intercooling is also a big advantage but difficult to fit in unless you have an airdam like the Veloce kit. Not sure of the 16V comp ratio, but the 1500 is 9.5 and this is really too high unless the boost is kept quite low, however anti knock would help with this. Ideally around 8.5 comp with 9to10 lbs boost should work. I don`t think your alfa has a front lsd,but some Subaru units have been adapted. These require an 8 bolt c/wheel. Still investigating.Ask Pete NZ for details.Regards Eddie |
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Scott Sander Alfa 33
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 419 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Errol,
How much money do you have?
Advice: Don't
But if you ignore my advice, come out to the next round of the Italian Challenge at Eastern Creek on the 27/28th September; look for the Sud that is painted in the Italian flag, otherwise affectionately known as the pizza box.
The guy that owns the car fitted a supercharger to a 16V motor and stuck it under the bonnet of his Sud.
Some things that he has done are:
Supercharger
Intercooler
Aftermarket ECU
Bigger injectors
Bigger radiator
Copper head gaskets
Oil cooler
Extra pulley fitted to the LHS inlet camshaft pulley to run alternator
Modified the plenum chamber to fit the supercharger
I think he has had to rebuild the motor 2 or 3 times since he started the project to put stronger bits in the engine as part of development things break.
He no longer runs the air con or power steering pump, well it is a racecar and there is also no room.
Have I put you off doing it yet?
Why don't you consider fitting a rex motor or even better still buy a rex? _________________ Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com |
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Errol Alfa Sprint
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Arggggggggh buy a rex? are you joking???? The guy on this forum that turboed his 33 has succesfuly done it, so why cant supercharging be done? I thought supercharging was easier and more reliable than a turbo. Im not really trying to get a race car set up here. I want more power out of the 33, and lets be honest, unless its FI there's no point wasting money.
Surely it can be done. Unless i do an engine swap. _________________ 91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip. |
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Guest
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:37 am Post subject: Power |
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Hi
Notice that increased torque leads to front suspension rebuilding too. My friend has a turbo Sprint, he had to rebuild the suspension. He got about 150 hp at first and the car was very unstable when accelerating.
He made Koni's with coilovers and adjustable camber, using parts from a rally Ford. The suspension bushes are the hardest available.
One leads to another- how to get the body to withstand increased torgue..
Have You given a thought of using VW G-lader?
Just my 2cents
TimoJ |
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Gary UK Alfa Sprint
Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 218 Location: Darlington UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought, didn't the 33 Diesel use an Audi block?? If so would a 2.2 Audi 5 cylinder unit not drop in if you got a 33 diesel gearbox?? |
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paddy granger Alfa Sprint
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 248
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:45 am Post subject: |
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As far as I know, the 33 diesel used a 3 cylinder VM engine:
http://riemann.unica.it/~lucio/alfa/specs/diesnew.htm
Not so sure how the gearbox was positioned with the diesel unit - the 3 cylinders hint that the engine used the same box position as the boxer - but an audi 5 cylinder wouldn't fit I don't think. Would be very front heavy and thus have more understeer, would be more interesting for a P4. |
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Scott Sander Alfa 33
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 419 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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The 33 TD looks like it used a similar design box to the more common petrol version. Didn't get the 33 TD here in Australia AFAIK.
I suspect the cost of a rex or a rex conversion would be cheaper and more reliable than a supercharged 16V. The engine development for the rex has been done already.
Joking about buying a rex, nope. Would prefer to see that than do a supercharge conversion. I think it would be more cost effective.
The series 3 that has already been thru the rex engine swap was advertised for a long time in the papers for sale. I guess it was eventually sold. _________________ Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com |
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Errol Alfa Sprint
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok say i put a wrx engine into my 33, would the chassis cope with that extra power and the whole drivetrain? With that much power, i can see things failing here and there in the near future. _________________ 91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip. |
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paddy granger Alfa Sprint
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 248
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:08 am Post subject: |
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The thing is...the Alfa Boxer engine is my favorite part of the car! I think you would miss it! |
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Scott Sander Alfa 33
Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 419 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:32 am Post subject: |
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ok if you are going to do the rex conversion, speak to Tony Rigoli, I believe they did the conversion of the other 33. _________________ Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com |
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sudman Alfasud
Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 69 Location: christchurch, new zealand
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:34 am Post subject: |
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I heard about the EJ20T conversion..... now I wonder if u can do it to a Sud.... that'd show those bloody Mitsi GSRs and Skylines whats up!
Cheers,
Richard |
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Eddie W Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Posts: 375 Location: new zealand
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all.
Would a LSD Help with this torque steer problem ?The racing guys out there might be able to tell us,as they are dealing with lots of power. I believe that the Sub viscous coupling is quite smooth unlike a plate unit which can be snatchy and heavy in a front drive car. I believe that 16v`s are quite driveable in standard 137hp form, sowhy should they suddenly turn into a pig at 150+hp? Are these Sprints with the problems on the post`87 suspension? You don`t get as much lift on acceleration and dive under brakes with this set up. There are a lot of Jappas out there with as much or more HP that seem to get by and there aint nothing a Jappa can do that an ALFA can`t do better! Love some more feedback on this.
Regards Eddie |
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Errol Alfa Sprint
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:34 am Post subject: |
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As much as i want to do this engine conversion, im worried about the chassis not being able to cope with the extra power! If i did the EJ20T conversion, id use a WRX gear box and LSD, then everything should be fine! _________________ 91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip. |
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j mizi Alfa Arna
Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 3 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi
If you put a wrx motor in you would have to put in a subaru liberty lx gearbox with some mods (to fit the hydrolic clutch) the wrx runs a fwd and the liberty lx runs a 2wd i have all this done to my alfa 33 and its quite a quick car it blows alot of cars away. _________________ Alfa 33 Turbo |
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Errol Alfa Sprint
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 114 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:11 am Post subject: |
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How much did that cost you? PM me i am very interested! _________________ 91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip. |
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James Granger Alfa 33
Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 302
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, send us some pics too! |
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j mizi Alfa Arna
Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 3 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Hi
I have just lost my licence so my alfa 33 with the EJ20Turbo motor is up for sale so offers around the $9000 mark if interested in Sydney, Australia. _________________ Alfa 33 Turbo |
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xris Alfa Arna
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 21 Location: Melbourne Victoria
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:02 am Post subject: |
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That was a good price to sell the car for. I'll have to ask my brother how much his mate bought the car for. The conversion costs around $8000 to be done (im pretty sure i rang rigoli and asked them awhile back).
Theres nothing wrong with the rex engine as it is a boxer engine also so you wont miss the sound of your engine, you will be smoking up your wheels though |
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Graham Alfasud
Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 32 Location: Lismore, Brisbane Australia
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I just received back my modified manifold to take the MR2 Blower and im going to spend this weekend bolting it on to my 16V engine stay posted to here the results. This has cost me so far $200AUS for the Manifold, $600 for the 2 blowers and $300AUS for the plumbing. Thats all the cost plus my time of course. _________________ 5 Alfa 33's, 2 Suds God there is no help for me
Also own 2 Complete 16V Engines(Spare) And Have a Sud Rally Car in Production |
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Peter D Alfasud
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Denmark
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: Supercharger on 16V engine |
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Will you remove the throttle bodies?
I do not think, that it will work with the four original throttle bodies.
You must instead have a big, single butterfly valve on the inlet side, so that you limit the amount of air that the supercharger sucks in.
If you just bolt the supercharger on, the pressure between supercharger and butterfly valves in the throttle bodies will be very high, because the supercharger will suck in the full amount of air, and with almost closed butterfly valves, the air has no where to go.
Would love to hear the result of your building project.
I have a project also with a supercharger on a factory new 16V boxer, but the supercharger is a new Opcon Autorotor screw-type, which I have also bought. So slowly collecting all the necessary parts, while finishing other projects (Sud 1.83 and 75 Evoluzione).
Peter (DK) |
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