Alfa Pages

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: Alfa 33 16v starting problem

Hi All,

My I've just dropped a 16v in my series 1 (pics will follow shortly) and it has a confusing problem while trying to start. When I go to start it it turns over quickly, but doesn't start. Sometimes it starts when you release the key. yet it will bump start perfectly.

Richard

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:14 am Post subject:

Starting when you release the key is frequently a battery problem (not enough voltage to get a decent spark whilst the starter motor is energised).

However the fact it turns over quickly would seem to mitigate against this. Turning over quickly can indicate a lack of compression which could be as simple as a loose plug or might indicate something more serious (ring problem, head gaskets).

What about the coil, are you using the 16v one or your existing one.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:28 am Post subject:

I'm using the 16v coil and I'm pretty sure it's getting compression as the engine was running well in the donor car before it was pulled.

RFlower · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:34 am Post subject:

Check whether you have sparks while cranking.

If not:

Have you changed any wiring? - It's just possible the ignition feed has been connected to a circuit which is disabled during cranking.

Another possibility is a faulty or wrongly wired ignition switch.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:48 am Post subject:

I have spark while cranking. I changed a bit of wiring, but I changed it back and still have the same problem.

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:49 am Post subject:

I'm also wondering about a ballasting mismatch.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:57 am Post subject:

How could I go about testing that?

Richard

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:11 am Post subject:

We need an expert!

How is the mk1 ballasted?

How is the 16v ballasted. Is the 16v coil a 6, 9 or 12v one?

First thing to test is how much voltage the coil is getting under normal circumstances and when the starter is being turned.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:04 pm Post subject:

The series 1 is not ballasted. The coil I'm using at the moment isn't from an alfa so i'm not sure if it needs a ballast or not. I'll change the coil to an unballasted alfa coil tomorrow and see if there is any improvement.

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject:

Before changing anything it's worth looking to see how much voltage the coil gets during starting.
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'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject:

While running the coil is getting around 12V and during startup around 10V

RFlower · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject:

Just in case, you could try temporarily running 12v to the coil directly from the battery, and see if it will start.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

JeremyC · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject:

Or even from another battery.
_________________
'93 Black 33 1.7 16v

RFlower · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:34 pm Post subject:

rji13 · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject:

Cool, I'll give it a go.

Richard

Bobkelso · Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject:

Hi,
when finished to control the ignition part
(the most probably faulty part)

you can also measure tension to the
ignection part, the gasoline external pump:

- when you turn the key to first position,
with the instruments working but the motor
still not cranking, a good value to the pump connectors
is 11,4 volts, less is some faulty electric wire/contact;

- during cranking I never tried to measure but
if always is Ok you still should measure at least
some decent tension ( 10 volt? )
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Alfa 33

ZeNiTh-PbArM · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject:

Hi,

from the symptoms you describe it does look like the typical ignition switch failure.
Turn the key ON, then activate the starter not with the key but with a piece of wire between the small starter terminal and the battery positive terminal. It should fire right away!

regards,
zp