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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: Cylinder 2 no compression! |
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Bad news!
Thought I had a fuel issue.
No compression on number two.
Mechanic will remove the head on Monday.
Very strange he said. We had almost 180psi last year.
No ticking noise either.
Burnt valve or broken ring?
Seat worn?? _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I take it cylinder 1 is good.
Camshaft ok? _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Are the intake valves 92.0 mm or 92.9 mm long?
I've seen 2 versions _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Brit01 wrote: |
1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat. |
Just wondered whether it was belt-related. Can't help with the valve length I'm afraid. Might be something to do with the valve clearance adjustment. Older engines had manual adjustment; later ones(like yours) have pastilles(shims). _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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eagle3 wrote: |
Brit01 wrote: |
1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat. |
Just wondered whether it was belt-related. Can't help with the valve length I'm afraid. Might be something to do with the valve clearance adjustment. Older engines had manual adjustment; later ones(like yours) have pastilles(shims). |
I did check my belts and all aligned. didn't slip any teeth
hydraulic tappets here so no lash.
No ticking noise due to broken tappets.
maybe one has collapsed and its not opening (but wouldn't tick)? Could this happen?
I have a few tappets spare luckily. valves are the issue _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Great!
just spoke with my mechanic. very experienced, worked on European rallys etc.
'don't worry about finding valves. we have expert machinist who takes high quality race valves and machines them to the exact dimensions we need'
if it is in fact a valve issue or not a tappet or something.
broken piston ring? maybe _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hydraulic tappet seized? _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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eagle3 wrote: |
Hydraulic tappet seized? |
yep could be I guess.
But no unusual noises coming from the cam area. dead silent.
collapsed internals so its not lifting the valve?
if it was seized wouldn't hit be hitting the lobe and making a nasty noise?
has a broken tappet before and it sounded like a sewing machine!
all guessing right now. we'll see next week but I am so curious.
I have one spare alfa tappet NOS. and I can buy INA ones here. All in now are INA about 2 years old. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anxious day today.
Took her in to have the head removed.
He'll call me once he has it off to see the damage!
_________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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fluffyduff Alfasud
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 57
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully it's not too painful... |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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fluffyduff wrote: |
Hopefully it's not too painful... |
I don't mind if its a valve job. he knows his stuff and can do that easily.
Don't want it to be a broken piston ring or hole in the piston. I want the pistons to remain in place.
Hope the tappets are fine along with the cams also. (replaced 2 years ago) _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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johnboy 16 Valve
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 1061 Location: margate U.K
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck chap _________________ WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet |
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Admin Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1223 Location: Stafford, UK
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Is it really zero compression, or just low? Zero would need quite dramatic damage I would think (and would make a massive difference to performance).
Not done it but I think you could probably change a piston with the engine in place with little more effort than replacing a valve. Head off, sump off, undo big end bolts, slide piston and rod out through the top.
Years ago my father had an oil consumption problem on a Lotus Europa. As a short term bodge he used the Selenia HPX oil (20W60 oil for old engines), which cured the oil consumption. A later engine strip revealed the reason for the oil consumption as a broken piston ring .
All the best
Keith _________________ I owe, I owe, its off to work we go.
Bimota Forum
Stafford Christmas Lights
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Admin wrote: |
Hi
Is it really zero compression, or just low? Zero would need quite dramatic damage I would think (and would make a massive difference to performance).
Not done it but I think you could probably change a piston with the engine in place with little more effort than replacing a valve. Head off, sump off, undo big end bolts, slide piston and rod out through the top.
Years ago my father had an oil consumption problem on a Lotus Europa. As a short term bodge he used the Selenia HPX oil (20W60 oil for old engines), which cured the oil consumption. A later engine strip revealed the reason for the oil consumption as a broken piston ring .
All the best
Keith |
compression was about 40 psi at best and was slow to get up to that.
Absolutely no power from #2. remove the HT cable and no difference.
Basically its not firing and its running on 3 cylinders so yes a huge difference in performance.
never saw any oil being burnt though. plug was blackish but not wet at all. just rich soot
yep piston could come out with engine in but if a ring replacement is needed then the difficult part is honing that bore to accept the new rings.
this is normally an engine out job and needs thorough cleaning afterwards.
Lets just hope its a burnt valve and not sealing on its seat properly. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the link
yeh maybe it is this. maybe a smaller hole as I get a little pressure while running the engine. maybe a small hole. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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If there's any compression(you did say "no compression" before) then the valve must be closing tight at some stage. Any hole however small would reduce the compression to zero, if not immediately then some short time after. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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We did a fast test on the side of the road With the engine running.
Not a leak down test.
If the hole is small there would still be a small amount of compression as it is forced out of the hole.
Unless so big as pictured in the link.
well anyway there is a spark, fuel going in but not producing any power and extremely low compression.
No noises from tappets or smoke coming out.
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust! _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Is cylinder 1 identical to 3 and 4? _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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kevjtd Alfa Arna
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 Posts: 22 Location: Lincolnshire
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Brit01 wrote: |
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust! |
there's your clue.
burnt exhaust valve or the seat has eroded/moved/cracked
that's where my money would be |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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kevjtd wrote: |
Brit01 wrote: |
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust! |
there's your clue.
burnt exhaust valve or the seat has eroded/moved/cracked
that's where my money would be |
great. yeh the noise comes from the carbs and tailpipe.
no news from the mechanic today. hopefully get a call tomorrow.
bets are on then
burnt valve or eroded seat: 1-2
Best to get all valves and guides done while the head is off I assume _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Very weird!!
Just got a call from the mechanic and the piston started working again before he took the head off!!!
Must have been a carbon build up or something!! _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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Brit01 Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 665
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Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Tensioners were shot! ! Changed them just in time! !
Old pump came out with a fight.
Old plastic rotor! !! Cheap no??
All new going on today. _________________ S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi) |
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johnboy 16 Valve
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 1061 Location: margate U.K
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Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Good news Brit and a bit lucky with the Tensioners _________________ WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet |
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