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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject: non starting 33. starter motor exciter wire not got enough.. |
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Hi Guys and Dolls.
My 33 wont start unless I turn the ignition on and use a wire direct from the + of the battery to the exciter wire on the starter motor.
I have cleaned the contact on the starter motor and if I connect my DMM to it, when I turn the ignition I am getting 12v.
I assume I am getting a current drop but need help in where to start, thanks. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Could be faulty ignition key switch. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Sure, but the point is, you measure 12V at no load, i.e. with the wire unplugged from the starter motor.
If you measure voltage while the wire is connected to the solenoid, there will be current flowing and any resistance upstream will cause a voltage drop proportional to the current.
With no current (disconnected) there is no voltage drop
Try shorting at the ignition switch and see if it cranks ok
regards,
zp |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Just put a replacement switch on my C15 diesel van. Starting was a bit hit and miss, getting gradually worse. Pre-heating was fine but the exciter bit(last turn of the key) was obviously problematic.
I had a lead in the car to connect the exciter terminal direct to the battery + terminal to start it if it didn't want to. New(ish) switch sorted it. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Can you get hold of another ignition switch + key(s)?
All but the latest series 3 have a 3 pin electrical socket I believe. My 1994 one has a four pin socket for anti-theft device. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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Johnpm1967 Alfasud
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 32 Location: Tewkesbury
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Al,
I have 3 spare ignition switches and steering column. They are all from series 2 so if yours is 3 pin set up they could work.
Shout if I can help.
John |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Guys, Im not sure if its the ignition switch, as there is power to the exciter wire when turning, although not enough to crank???
Happened again last night _________________ x2 33 16v
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Have you got an aftermarket alarm Al? |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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yes but it's not that, been there before lol. there is power to the exciter wire when the key is turned but not enough to crank.
I am not getting email notifications _________________ x2 33 16v
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Only saying because I had the very same issues with mine. I disconnected the immobiliser on the alarm which was basically two wires that cut power to the starter. Never had another problem starting again. Could be worth doing to eliminate it. |
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Have you had a look inside the solenoid? Not sure you can dismantle on the 33 but if you're getting 12v on the exciter then maybe that tends to a solenoid problem?
Maybe also an amperage problem? Maybe voltage is OK but not enough amps to crank?
Sell it. |
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paulhide P4
Joined: 20 Dec 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Oh Beautiful Billingham
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Don't sell it. An Alfa 33 beat all-comers today at Croft Racing Circuit.
Hope you can sort it Al. Don't know what to suggest. _________________ Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
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Johnpm1967 Alfasud
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 32 Location: Tewkesbury
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Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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How annoying. If the starter motor on the 3 is the same as the 2 then I have spare you could borrow to test the solenoid theory. Only problem I am not close. |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the suggestions guys.
I have eliminated the alarm by temporarily bypassing it, so that isn't the problem.
I believe there aren't enough amps because when I connect a wire direct from the +battery to the exciter wire on the starter motor, it works.
Are there anymore connections to clean between the ignition barrel and the exciter wire connection on the starter motor?
STILL NOT GETTING EMAIL NOTIFICATIONS _________________ x2 33 16v
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lee16v 16 Valve
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 1429 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:33 am Post subject: |
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If that's the case Al then simply rewire the exciter wire via the ignition switch with an in line fuse. Something is clearly breaking down in the original part of the loom. |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
If you are looking for the root cause you may want to look for :
1. Harness terminal mating with solenoid tab. Crimp connection to the wire gets oxidized, and the terminal itself can loose clamping force. I had an intermittent non-cranking issue, always in hot condition, which I definitely cured cutting this terminal and crimping a brand new one instead
2. big square connector between battery and heater fan. One wire is the starter one
3. ignition switch square connector below steering column
4. ignition swith itself
regards,
zp |
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eagle3 Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 402 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Ignition switch still favourite with me.. _________________ Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:08 am Post subject: |
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This is hard to get to the cause as I only drive once a week and it's intermittent.
I drove today and it started on the first leg of the journey and after putting some fuel in.
On the return journey all was good until I made a stop. then it didn't work.
This time I checked my temp alarm bypass, don't need it when i'm driving it lol and it started.
Lee, this is weird because when the alarm is in use it doesn't cut power to the starter. It will just crank but not start. _________________ x2 33 16v
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ZeNiTh-PbArM Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 388 Location: Paris, France
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
When you checked, did you by chance open the hood? If yes, faulty connections may have cooled down at the same time...
regards, |
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BigAl P4
Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I parked, turned the engine off, got out for a min, got back in and it didn't start. I opened the bonnet and only moved my bypass connector. I will leave the alarm connected whilst I'm driving from now on.
thanks for all the suggestions guys. _________________ x2 33 16v
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