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16v ecu diagnostics

 
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BigAl
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Joined: 06 May 2003
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Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: 16v ecu diagnostics Reply with quote

Does anyone know if the software that is in the Alfa garages diagnostics box of tricks is available? I’d like to put it on a laptop and have all readings on screen.
Thanks
I am not interested in the blink code or anything else. Instead of buying one of the main dealers box of tricks, which do all makes of cars, i just want the 33 program running from a laptop.
Thanks again
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1993 ser 3 silver 16v


Last edited by BigAl on Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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bobbber
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 16v ecu diagnostics Reply with quote

BigAl wrote:
I am not interested in the blink code or anything else. Instead of buying one of the main dealers box of tricks, which do all makes of cars, i just want the 33 program running from a laptop.
Thanks again


You don't want much! Laughing

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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saves wasted posts of people suggesting what I don’t want. Tell me what you want, what you really really want, I want a 33 aghhhh
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think those main dealers diagnostic box's just get updated via pc, when a new make / model of car comes out. So if one could get hold of the update for a 33 and the software that is run in the box, one could emulate it on a pc.
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm after what zenith is doing but with a gui

All the stuff i have found is for obd, i found various software, eg vag com and stuff for the 146.
As i understand it there is a k-line and l-line on the 3 pin ecu diognostic connector. The l-line is used to wake the ecu and the k-line is the ISO data to and from the ECU
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

ML4.1 system has very little diag functionality.
When the system appeared, Alfa first sold a blink code tool to diagnose it (that was on '86 alfa75 models fitted with underhood circular diag socket)
In '88, Alfa developed and sold the first real diag unit to its dealers, it was called Alfa Tester (and its siamese brother the Fiat Lancia Tester)

This unit was able to diagnose the ML4.1 as well as other systems, and selection of the system was made through switching of cartridges containing the specific program for a particular system ; the cartridge system was very similar to the system used by Nintendo/Sega to run different games on the same console.
Reverse engineering of the unit is quite uneasy, the unit uses an uncommon and undocumented Hitachi processor along with proprietary peripheral circuits.
The ML4.1 has the nasty habit of breaking communication from time to time (this includes during starting), and the Alfa tester was never able to keep communication with the ECU alive with engine running.
In '93, Alfa replaced the good old Alfa Tester with a PC-based product called the Examiner. This diag tool is basically a PC computer fitted with CD reader, printer port, and comprises a specific interface card ; updates were available through CDROM.
This unit was replaced by the Examiner II, more powerful computer, tactile screen, DVD updates, whatever...
Reverse engineering of these is quite difficult, while update DVDs can be found quite easily. Half of the software is running on the computer, and all of the communication software is in fact run on the interface card (read : firmware). Once again hardware is proprietary, and you'll have to go through most of the compiled garbage (a whole DVD!) to extract what you need.
I've gone another route and reversed the ECU, it's quicker and easier.
My first circuit has proven to work satisfactorily.

I've made an update to the board to provide a workaround to spurious comm interruptions

I've designed my interface to provide serial communication with a PC, which will make it possible to develop a computer-based display interface.
I'm currently working on the final development phase and first samples should be available soon. I'll keep you informed.

With best regards,
zp
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet Smile
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Looks cool Shocked Any chance that the tester connects to the L-Jet system?

Regards,
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etj987
Alfa Arna


Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Diagnos Reply with quote

ZeNiTh-PbArM

For an amatur it seems you`re doing a great job.
As a newcomer on this forum I would very much appreciate if you would like to update me on current status of the project and if you have any plans for the L-jetronic common on 8v 1,7IE.
Do you plan to make these testers available for the rest of us less skilled in programming?

At present my 33 needs proper diagnosis. I have a very week spark and current plan is to get a donor 33 and swap components one by one.
I have done the normal distributor cap, cables and coil change but no cure.

Regards.
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Still working on the units, anyhow L-jetronic has very little diag functionnality and is not currently targeted.
However, having experienced weak spark problems on this system, i would suspect the ignition amplifier final stage. The transistor is likely to have burnt. Be sure to check on the coil too, as a partially shorted coil might have been the cause of amplifier failure.
Besides, check the obvious, i once had a dizzy cap and rotor replaced by a poor quality/wrong model/counterfeit spare part, and the rotor arm resistance deteriorated over a few days, which resulted in a fried ECU and a stranded car.

regards,
zp
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etj987
Alfa Arna


Joined: 11 Apr 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ZP

Thanks for your help.
I am not familiar with the expression ignition amplifier - is that the transistorized distrubutor?
As I understand your explenation you recommend me to swap both coil and distributor.
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes amplifier is the module fitted on the distributor.
regards,
zp
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 771
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

ZP since the distributor has just a multipole connector and no obvious signs of electronics, isn't this amplifier module located at the black box just behind the battery?

I opened it up and here is a photo of the circuit


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Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33


Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 423
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

From the looks of it this is an ignition ECU, which computes ignition advance.
33s fitted with carbs had a module either on the dizzy (bosch system) or under the coil (marelli system)

regards,
zp
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZP
Any update?
are they for sale yet?
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33bits
16 Valve


Joined: 23 May 2009
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Location: Clevedon. North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall Kieth picking up a "box of tricks" diagnostic set at the Auto Italia Stanford Hall event last year. Confused
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BigAl
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened to this ZP?
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