Alfa Pages

[RFlower]

The February issue of Practical Classics features Alfa 33 1.7 as its choice of bargain car of the 90's ( page 58 ). Among the comments: "... but they (33's) need the original oil filter with a pressure bypass valve, or no oil will make it to the hydraulic lifters on number three cylinder, causing the bucket and eventually the cam to get eaten."
I understand that the oil filter bypass valve, if fitted, is to allow oil to continue to pass through to the engine at a useful pressure if the filter becomes severely restricted, unfiltered oil being better than none at all. Can't see that problems due to a restricted filter without a bypass apply to an Alfa 33 more than any other car. Sounds like a bit of folk legend. Anyway, unfiltered oil is more likely to cause lifter problems, even tho' better than a siezed engine. Replace filter on time, with or without bypass valve.
Any comments on Practical Classics' statement ?

While on the subject, when I first started playing with cars, oil filters consisted of a paper element encased in a steel housing, cleverly designed to dump oil in all directions when the fixing bolt was loosened. However, they were practically all the same on every car, even tho' some were "bypass" rather than "full flow" filters.
Nowadays there seem to be as many filters as there are makes and models.
Apart from fitting the engine's mounting, available space, and having a bypass valve or not, can anyone tell me why so many different filters are necessary ?

They all have a hole for the oil to go in, a paper element, and an anulus (that's anulus ) for the oil to go out, and maybe a bypass valve, so why do we need so many different ones ? If anything, a larger canister increases the oil capacity, which could be a benefit.

To reduce parts we had to hold, we used to use the same, cheap & available Fram filter for Alfa Sprint, NSU Ro80, Fiat Fiorino van, Seat Terra vans, and Seat Marbella, all of which had different recommended filters, with no obvious problems, for several years.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

[rjbevan]

Having started a thread on this subject some time ago, I thought I should answer this! It's important to use the correct filter, especially if the car has hydraulic tappets. I suspect what the article meant was that the filter should have a non-return valve. This ensures oil doesn't drain away when the engine is stopped. The filter on my original engine didn't have such a valve, the new one did (it was the correct one for the engine) - which was why I asked the question. My engine doesn't have hydraulic lifters but it's still better to have a non-return valve as this ensures there is plenty of oil to the bearings at start-up.

Richard

[RFlower]

Hi Richard
Yes, non-return valve does make more sense. Even so, don't see it makes much difference what filter one uses so long as it fits and has NR valve...
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for breaking) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '73 NSU Ro80 (F), '99 Fiat Seicento (F)

[gritsop]

Hi,

It was spring of 2003 when I decided to have my Alfa serviced by me and my father and not anymore rely to the various mechanics.

So among other spares I bought oil filter which to my surprise was a different color (black) in contrast to the orange fitted.
The AR mechanic was always installing the orange filter (replaced once a year or 10000kms) since car's birth in 4/1991.

The AR dealer said to me that this orange one has been out of production and now AR only gives the black ones which I think they are a bit shorter in contrast to the orange.

What is your opinion and which color is available in your markets?
The box of the black filter has printed the Lancia & FIAT logo if this helps.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[BILL]

[gritsop]

Hi,

Thanks, Bill for your info. About SAVARA, my previous air filter was such, the present was in a package with the known red ricambi originali logo so I cannot really tell.

An interesting picture I found in Scott's Website is the one featuring the two types of filters.

Here is the link to the image:
http://sanderfamily.com Then click Alfa things, then click oil filter

I really can't remember my filter's brand but it looks much alike the black one in the picture above.

So, the question is : does the black one have the non return valve? and what is the purpose for being shorter?

I 'll take a look at mine tomorrow and I 'll come back with the details

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

hi everyone,

speaking of oil filters for 33s, i must say that the valve is an essential device. don't ever use the cheaps filters, or you'll get in big trouble very soon.
this valve is in fact a pressure limiter : when the pressure in the filter reaches a certain value, the valve opens, thus allowing an unfiltered flow of oil to go to the engine. this can be useful in two cases :
- when the filter is way too old and has become clogged : the motor is still lubricated, which prevents it from seizing due to oil starvation
- each time th engine is started from cold, the oil is too viscous to flow through the filter and pressure builds up (you can see it with an oil pressure gauge). the oil flow through the filter is very tiny, and some components may not get enough oil to work properly, which can cause premature wear of th engine. hopefully, the valve in the filter opens and a moment later, when the oil is hotter, it closes and the oil is again normally filtered.

so, i think a good quality filter is like an insurance : you pay for it all your life, whereas it seems useless, but if you don't want to bother with it, you get in trouble.
take care of your 33, and it'll last you a lifetime.

regards,
zp

[alfistjen]

Hi,

I believe every oil filter has the pressure by pass in case it clogs or any other problem occurs.
But there really should be a difference between the 8V and the 16V filters. All two of them do fit the 8V and 16V engine, I allways buy the FRAM filters and where the 8V one costs only 7€ the 16V one costs 14€ so there should be quite a difference in them. And as the outside is identical there must be a kind of no return valve in them.

Regards!

Paul D.

1.7 16V QV

[gritsop]

Hi,

I just checked my oil filter and it is manufactured by "Sogefi Filtration S.p.A".

God knows if this has a non return valve - I check it with my AR dealer if he knows anything about it.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[rjbevan]

Looking at the recent posts, I think there is some confusion about oil pressure relief valves, oil by-pass valves and non-return valves.

Oil pressure relief valves ensure the oil pressure doesn't go over a specific value. The valve is in the body of the oil pump and can only be accessed when the engine is stripped down. When the oil is cold, the pressure can be high so the valve dumps excess oil back to the sump.

The non-return valve is in the filter and if I remember correctly when I looked at my last one that I changed, it is below the threaded part of the screw on filter. So if you can see the bottom of the filter through the centre hole of the filter, then I don't think you have a non-return valve. But I could be wrong (I don't have a correct filter to hand so that I can check that fact).

A by-pass valve was used on the old type of throw-away paper filters, where you had to unscrew the bowl and remove the old filter and replace with a new one. If you ever had an old mini (and I'm talking very old - 60's) then you know what I mean. Since oils were not as good as they are now-a-days and engines weren't as clean inside, then they used to incorporate a by-pass valve which did as it says, by-pass the filter so if it got clogged-up it would still keep the oil flowing. This is not a good idea as any dirt in your oil would go straight to the bearings and ruin them. In the old days it was quite common to re-build engines at 40,000 or 50,000 miles so I suppose it wasn't that big a problem.

Richard

[dd (guesting)]

The oil filter needs a return valve if you have hydraulic tappets.
It may beneficial if you have earlier motor.

The black filter sold by FIAT Spa dealers is physically smaller than
the Orange ones (Ricambi)
HENCE, it will not last as long - see article in latest AROC magazine
on filters and oil.
The orange one (as originally fitted to 16V motors) is still available
- I get mine from AlfaStop Norwich UK
But is not available via FIAT Spa outlets - stock rationalisation?

They both fit, I had problems undoing the black one last oil change
- it seems to overheat more easily - all orange ones undid no problem

My advice:
Use the Orange one (and selenia 20K)
Exception:
Unless your motor is pushing out 150+ bhp in which case use the
orange one, have oil cooler installed and use Selenia Racing Fully Synthetic and upgrade the oil pump )

-- dnd

[gritsop]

Hi,

I checked the receipt of the AR dealer I always buy spares and the oil filter costs 8,25€ and it is characterised "Oil Filter A33-A145-A146" with product code 46805828. This code cannot be found at the Alfa parts CD, so I guess it is a generic FIAT filter.

Maybe I should go back to check somewhere else to find the original orange one unless I get ensured that this black one has a return valve contained (which I 'll do tomorrow.)

Also, I didnt not find any difficulty unsrewing it from the engine by hand.The same force applied when screwing it was also applied when replacing it.

When you write that the black filter will not last as long, what do you mean?Is there a URL in order to check for that specific article?

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[gritsop]

Forgot to mention that when I unscrewed the old filter (again a black one) I noticed that inside was quite much quantity of oil - I judge that it should be around 70-80 grams, not taking into account the quantity that was spilled on the floor. The engine was turned off for about half an hour if this makes things more straightforward.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[gritsop]

Hi,

After long discussions with various AR dealers amd mechanics the conlusion is that the black filters have been in sale (at least in Greece) for 3 years exactly. The orange ones no longer exist and the black ones have the specifications of the old ones - this means that they contain the non return valves which has the purpose not to let the oil go back in the sump.
The mechanic's words were that these filters contain two valves because the 33 needs by all means oil to remain at the head and the tappets.
So there is no need to be in doubt about the filters, the specifications are being followed.

PS I was me before - I forgot to log on...

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[ns]

Hi,

I use FRAM filter for my 33 1.7 16v, is it good for it? or I have to buy original one?

In FRAM catalog, oil filters for 1.5, 1.7ie, 1.7 16v are the same - part No. PH4478.

Before:
( All two of them do fit the 8V and 16V engine, I allways buy the FRAM filters and where the 8V one costs only 7€ the 16V one costs 14€ so there should be quite a difference in them.)

Any comments???

NS.

[Paul Doc]

I've just had the head gaskets done on my 1.5ie in a friend's workshop. I'd told them I'd get an Alfa filter when the engine was going back together. Since I wasn't a rush, they fitted it around other jobs and used a filter from the local parts supplier when they needed it.
Result - lifters on no.3 cylinder wouldn't load up with oil.
The problem disappeared in seconds with the black filter from Alfa (which was much smaller than the previous part). Suggests to me that the non-return valve is definitely in the black filter and helps build pressure,at least from an empty/newly reassembled engine.

[John Hansen]

When I was in Melbourne I could buy the Black filters for about $ 15 a piece and they seemed to be OK. I am, and have in the past, been using Ryco Z421 filters that cost about AUS $ 25 and they seem to be quite OK. They're made in South Africa and when starting the engine, the oil pressure light is on for about a second prior to going off, whic to me would incdicate that the oil presure is maintaned by some sort of non return valve in the filter - that would keep the oil pressure up. Current kilomage is 328,000 and engine still revs ahrd ( to the limiter) and the car runs well.
_________________
John H
'87 Alfa 33 QV

[GaryUK]

A second seems quite long in the past all my 33's pressure lights went out immediately.

[John Hansen]

GAry,
Perhaps saying a second was incorrect, but I can't measure mili seconds - the oil pressure light does go out quite quickly - about the same time as the charginbg light when starting the engine. The brake fuid level and other idiot lights saty on for a bit longer!!
_________________
John H
'87 Alfa 33 QV