Alfa Pages

Mixsynth

Removed the 8V engine today. Took 7 bloody hours, two jacks, two socket sets, lots of spare wood, a hammer longer than my arm... But worth it.

Next step, fit the 16V. Easier said than done...

So what haven't I thought of... EFI fuel tank? Got one. Fuel lines? Use the old 16V ones. Exhaust system? Until performance system, makeshift combo of 8V rear/mid sections and 16V manifold (if it doesn't fit then I'll make it fit). Cam belts/tensioners? Can't be arsed, will get a garage to do it later (famous last words). Anything else? Who knows...

Wish me luck this thursday when I tear the engine bay of the second Alfa 33 to pieces...
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Admin · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:37 am Post subject:

Hi

It will be FAR easier to do the belts with the engine out of the car. If you dont want to do them yourself then think about taking the engine in to get them done before you put it into the car.

Have you got a front cross member from a 16V?

What are you doing for all the wiring? The engine I bought for my P4 came with wiring, but the connectors to the main loom were different. Not sure what year they changed

All the best

Keith

Mixsynth · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:48 am Post subject:

Hi Keith

1. Will have a look for some belts from the local Alfa shop. I'm not too bothered about getting them replaced yet - all I want to do is get the car moving, so's I can get it to a garage to clean the whole thing up. Surely if I leave the belt covers off (as I intend to do) it will make them easier to access?

2. I have a whole 16V (P4) so I have all the parts I'll need.

3. I'm just going to do a bit of 'trial and error' with the wiring. Everything is labelled, and I have the wiring diagrams printed, so we'll have to see how it goes. It IS the part I'm most anxious about.

I still would like to know if I can get my hands on sports mid/rear 16V SportWagon exhaust sections...
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Admin · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject:

Hi

Problem with the belts is that you also need to move the power steering pump and alternator belts as well. Also to get the room to do it you also want to remove the radiator, and that it easiest if the alternator is removed, etc

With the engine out of the car you have loads of room to do the job, and also find the marks on the cam shafts

By the way, when I did the engine swap I just swapped the loom from the old engine onto the new engine. There was an extra wire on the loom that came with the new engine

All the best

Keith

Jorik · Alfasud Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 26

Hey Hugh,
Good luck on the conversion man! I've had my QV done some 4 years ago, been 16valving eversince. Like Keith mentioned, remember the crossmember, repositioning of the radiator the front exhaust pipe and the fuel lines and pump. Furthermore good luck on the wiring!!!!!!!!
Let us now when you're 16valving!
Cheers
Jorik
_________________
Cheers,
Jorik
1988 33 1.7 16v QV
http://home.planet.nl/~koper193/index.html

Gary UK · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:50 pm Post subject:

And don't leave the cam covers off incase something gets tangled up in the belt and it slips (this is worse than it snapping as ALL the valves on that side will be bent)

Matt C · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 2:50 pm Post subject: what you need

what you may need!

16v front cross member,
16v starter motor,
coolant hoses off 16v
and you may have to relocate your thermo fan,
O2 sensor off 16v
electric fuel pump if you don't already have one
If you are fitting an 8v gearbox to a 16v motor and the motor has it's crank possition pickup on the fly wheel you will need to file a small groove in the bellhousing of the gearbox to locate this.

just to name a few things.
_________________
Molto Veloce!

Mixsynth · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: what you need

Matt C · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:03 am Post subject: re:

With regards to the fan.
i transplanted a 16v into a 89 1.7ie 33.
i found the standard fan had no chance of fitting. i fitted 2 thermo fans onto the front of the radiator behind the grill, works a treat. eliminated any chance of engine over heating.
When taking the fans on the front of the radiator into consideration, they must now Blow instead of sucking. you can't simply reverse the polarity. this will change direction of flow however if the fan itself isn't designed to blow in that direction it wont be efficient. There are fans on the market which are uni-flow and can be interchanged.
Painted them silver/chrome also, looks good
_________________
Molto Veloce!

Gary UK · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:49 am Post subject:

Also make sure you don't leave too much skin off your knuckles on the engine as I have found this often leads to much swearing and even the odd boot/wrench shaped dent in the bodywork. Speaking from personal experience I'd have another car or similar inanimate object around to vent your anger on, I'd recommend a lump hammer and a concourse Rover 100 or failing that 30mg of Benzodiazepam (the latter is more expensive though and I would personally never condone the use of mind altering drugs(unless used in either excess or moderation)).

GOOD LUCK!!

Matt C · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:06 am Post subject: LOL

You sound like a mechanic Gary Laughing

This type of behavour is caried out daily in my workshop!
It's not strange to see a rattlegun go flying across the workshop.
Worst problem is, you can't thump the cars as they are all Brand new Merc Benz.
Most venting is done outside with a coke and a smoke!
_________________
Molto Veloce!

Mixsynth · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 10:19 am Post subject:

There's been a bit of swearing going on so far in our 'workshop' (for 'workshop' read 'tiny garage with barely enough room to stand'). The 16V engine is sitting on two jacks today, couldn't quite get it off the gearbox because we forgot to undo the P4 driveshaft from the back of the gearbox and it hit the underbody! It's a good thing the body is just going to the scrapper (or maybe I can give it to Gary as a punchbag! Razz

).
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Mixsynth · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:47 pm Post subject: PICTURES

A few pictures of our work so far for all those who are interested:

1 - Before starting on Veloce engine bay
2 - First surprise! 40mm Dellortos! I thought they were Webers...
3 - Dellortos removed on bench
4 - Starting to lower the engine...
5 - Engine hits the ground (so to speak!)
6 - The old 8V engine sitting free
7 - " from a different angle
8 - Engine bay hasn't been this empty for a fair few years...
9 - Starting work on P4 engine bay - 16V plenum with hoses removed
10 - Plenum removed, block visible
11 - Bumper, grille and radiator removed
12 - Plenty o'Tools! Smile

13 - And then there were two...
14 - What on earth happened with the release bearing...
15 - Just had to do it... stuck the P4 wheels on the Veloce
16 - " with bootlid down
17 - " from front (sorry just looks great!)
18 - " straight on

And that's as far as the story goes SO FAR... Soon will come the hard bit - the iniezione elettronica... Confused

_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Gary UK · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:14 pm Post subject:

While the bay is empty why don't you anti rust treat and respray it and maybe reinfoce the rails with extra bracing. U can get mached 2 pack paint put in aerosols in the UK (1 750ml can base coat and 1 750ml can laquer about £15 for both). Makes it look good when u lift the bonnet and it looks like you can eat your dinner off it!!

And what about a ram air intake system?

Mixsynth · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject:

Believe it or not there is no rust in the engine bay! It's absolutely spotless! Could do with a jetwash though - can't quite eat me egg and chips off it yet Smile

Hmm, not sure about the ram intake. I'd be happy with the standard airbox at the mo, with a K&N panel in it - just wanna get it WORKING so's I can get to and fro - I miss driving!!
_________________
Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations

Gary UK · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:23 pm Post subject:

If you set up a system that forces air into the filter you don't half notice the difference at speed. I have a system that takes air from the cetntral holes in the mk2 veloce bumper and next to the radiator (only do-able with mk2 radiator). It was quite a bit of work with fiberglass and 4" ducting fabrication but the difference was instantly noticeable. You could also use the foglight holes as well but I opted to put the air from these onto the disks instead. All to watch out for is setting the intake too low incase you encounter a deep puddle/ford, ask Keith about this one!!

And anything that gets the air before it is warmed by the engine and especially the radiator is very good.

Admin · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:25 pm Post subject:

Hi

See

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/oops.htm

And that was with the standard air intake.

If you do run a system preasurising the airbox then it can upset the mixture on a carbed car. The 33 should be fine as the float bowl vents into the airbox (so the float bowl is preasurised by the same amount as the air through the carbs) but it is one to watch for on other cars

All the best

Keith

Matt C · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:38 pm Post subject: attention Keith!!

I noticed on your webpage, one of the pictures featuring your timing belt tensioner pulleys.

One of these pulleys is back to front, you will find one of the pulleys on each side should be around the otherway. The lip on the pulley will prevent belt from simply working it's way off as pulley bearings age.
This is what happens if pulleys are put on facing same direction.
thought i would just point this out.
I realised this is your old engine and have probably rectified this.
Cool

http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/oops.htm
_________________
Molto Veloce!