View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
jmmoss Alfa Arna
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Melbourne
|
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:57 am Post subject: Differences between the Gold and Green Cloverleaf 33's? |
|
|
Hi again, sorry more questions!
In my owners manual of my 1.5 Quadrifoglio oro (which I think is Cloverleaf Gold) it list the specs of two variartions of the 1.5 33: the Gold Cloverleaf and the Green Cloverleaf (Quadrifoglio Verde).
The specs are identical (2 carbs. Cubic capacity 1490, bore, stroke all the same), but the power output is 95bph for the Gold Cloverleaf and 105bph for the Green Cloverleaf. How is the 10bph power increase acheived for the Green Cloverleaf? Is it different carbs? Can I upgrade my 33 to the 105bhp spec?
Also, I thought the Cloverleaf badge was reserve only for the most powerful cars of the Alfa range. Why therefore do the 1.5 33's carry the badge and not exclusively the 1.7 33's? Sorry for the questions but I am confused! Thanks _________________ Alfa 33 4c 1.5 Gold Cloverleaf 1987
with Air Conditioning |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ben_nz Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 575 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
The 1.5 engine was originally the largest and most powerful, so it got the cloverleaf badge. They brought out the 1.7 engine in the series 2 models, so the cloverleaf badge got stuck on that instead.
And then in the series 3 models they had the 1.7 16V engine and 4WD, so the cloverleaf badge got taken off the 1.7 8V models and bumped up to the fastest 33s again.
I think the 1.5 Gold Cloverleaf models sometimes came with a few bits that no other model afterwards ever got, namely handy voltage and oil pressure gauges and groovy trip computer! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Buck Bundy Alfasud
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 68 Location: Anglesey
|
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: Extra Power |
|
|
You were right, the extra 10bhp comes from different heads - hotter cams, better porting, and, I think, bigger valves.
I think another very significant difference between a 33 Gold Cloverleaf and 33 Green Cloverleaf was the gear/final drive ratios with the Green Cloverleaf being much sportier.
Gold = Comfort
Green = Sporty
Buck
P.s. Does the revival of the GTA name mean an end to the Cloverleaf name (at least for the moment)? _________________ Sprint Veloce 1.5 - Ebay £310!!! (In need of TLC) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Adrian (melb) Alfa Arna
Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Posts: 10
|
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, the gold has less "paper" power but when you drive one side by side the hotter cams are only really useful in the last 1500 revs, Around town the 95bhp is a better drive, but the 105 will pull away in a straight. Having said that the 1.7ti carb is the bomb
(ive owned all three in my car, 95, 105, and 117bhp engines
should i cry or laugh i dont know
Adrian (melb) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ak863 Guest
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
btw, all cloverleaf of series 3 are using 4 wheel drive?
or only the P4 variations? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rolle Alfa Arna
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Kirkkonummi - Finland
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ak863 wrote: |
btw, all cloverleaf of series 3 are using 4 wheel drive?
or only the P4 variations? |
Only P4, as in permanent 4.
Does anyone know the difference between QV and S-models in the 3-series? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ak863 Guest
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
therefore 140 horsepower all in front wheel drive..
this sounds interesting... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rolle Alfa Arna
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Kirkkonummi - Finland
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ak863 wrote: |
therefore 140 horsepower all in front wheel drive..
this sounds interesting... |
The 16V has either 129, 132 or 137hp, no matter if it is QV or S or whatever. I think the 137hp version is without kat and not that usual. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jmmoss Alfa Arna
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Melbourne
|
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the replies guys, but still a little confused:
They made 1.7 33's before 1987, I have seen them for sale 1985 models onwards. So my 1987 1.5 Gold Cloverleaf would not have been the most powerful of the range at the time - the 1.7 TI would have been, so why did the 1.5 not have the lesser "TI" badge and the 1.7 the Cloverleaf badge? Cheers! _________________ Alfa 33 4c 1.5 Gold Cloverleaf 1987
with Air Conditioning |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Maze123 Alfasud
Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 73 Location: Denmark
|
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
According to my information, the cloverleaf-symbol (QV) stands for the sporty models. It has nothing to do with the engine, thus I haven't heard about the golden cloverleaf before. But it seems logical, that the golden cloverleaf is equal to comfort! The QV, or cloverleaf, models have some small skirts, a different interior and in most cases also fog-lights. I think there are a few more differences, but I cant remember...
Well, that's what I think! Correct me if I'm wrong...
Mads _________________ Alfa 33 1.7 16v '88 QV
http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=2498 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alfaqv33 Alfasud
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 44
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
the difference between the qv and the qv s in the series 3 is only de wheels. The qv s has the same wheel als the perminent 4 and without the s the wheels are the originel speedlines
after 1992, the qv s wasn't selling anymore. the normal qv got always the perminent 4 wheels or you could choose the speedlines. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rolle Alfa Arna
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Kirkkonummi - Finland
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alfaqv33 wrote: |
the difference between the qv and the qv s in the series 3 is only de wheels. The qv s has the same wheel als the perminent 4 and without the s the wheels are the originel speedlines
after 1992, the qv s wasn't selling anymore. the normal qv got always the perminent 4 wheels or you could choose the speedlines. |
Ok, thanks for that! In Finland we only got QV but in Germany many seem to be S. They also often have sunroof and ABS brakes, but apparently they aren't there because of the "S" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rolle Alfa Arna
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Kirkkonummi - Finland
|
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
alfaqv33 wrote: |
the difference between the qv and the qv s in the series 3 is only de wheels. The qv s has the same wheel als the perminent 4 and without the s the wheels are the originel speedlines |
Hmm.. got me wondering, if that is the only difference, then why did they do the P4 S? Or is that a P4 with the speedlines? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
alfaqv33 Alfasud
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 44
|
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i didn't know that also a 33 p4 S is made
But in holland where i came form is the difference only the wheels, you could check me on www.autotrader.nl
And also, my brother had the normal qv and i have the qv s, and we couldn't find any difference beside the wheels.
But the italian guys are very strange.......... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rolle Alfa Arna
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Kirkkonummi - Finland
|
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
alfaqv33 wrote: |
i didn't know that also a 33 p4 S is made |
I'm not 100% sure but almost every P4 has been S, perhaps everyone is and therefore they have the P4-wheels
Quote: |
But the italian guys are very strange.......... |
Say no more.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tone Alfa Arna
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 20 Location: perth (australia)
|
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
does the 1988 1.7 ti ( carbed ) have any diffrences to a standard 1.7 carbed , ( if there is such thing as a standard carbed 1.7) or was all carbed 1.7s badged ti
i went to see one claimed to be a ti ( greenclover) but it had aria condizioner or something on the left i thought strange for a green clover, --have just read the other topic on this badge!
are they ment to have the black doorposts like the 1.5 ti , and a diffrent grille. and should it have headlamp washers ?
it had the bright red ti carpets . i will check on the engine and chassis numbers , what should they be on this model.? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
loui Alfasud
Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Scotland
|
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have the original sales brochures here for the Mk2 33 1988
The 1.7Ti engine has a longer stroke and slightly wider piston.
stroke/bore 1.7 84/67.2 1.7Ti 87/72.2
So the 1.7Ti is slightly quicker and faster. Nothing to impressive.
Listed as 2mph faster in top gear and 0.2 seconds quicker to 60mph.
Looks like the 1.5Ti and the 1.7 share the same engine bloke. Different cylinder heads making up the cc.
The other differences are cosmetic.
Deeper body kits and colour coordination in the grill. Black door posts are on the 1.7 saloons. The 1.5's and the estates have body coloured posts. Cloverleaf and 1.7 Veloce both appear to have red carpets.
Headlight washers are not listed as an option on the range.
Options for all cars were 5 spoke alloys, sunroof, metallic paint and a radio. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Buck Bundy Alfasud
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 68 Location: Anglesey
|
Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 9:26 am Post subject: Ummm? |
|
|
When the 1.7 33 first came out in the UK there was a 4 model 33 range.
33 1.5 Ti
33 1.5 Veloce
33 1.7 Cloverleaf
33 1.7 Veloce
The only difference the Veloces had was a bodykit. The 1.7 had a bit more equipment than the 1.5.
With the later cars, all P4s in the UK as far as I am aware were "33S 16v 'cloverleaf' Permanent 4" (The cloverleaf being the green cloverleaf symbol). They all had the same wheels.
The P4 wheels did find themselves onto the normal 16v 2WD model but I think that was just Alfa using up the wheel stock and trying to make things interesting (confusing!). I don't think they were badged any differently here, but other importers might have wanted to make the change more apparent for marketing reasons.
Hope that helps
Buck _________________ Sprint Veloce 1.5 - Ebay £310!!! (In need of TLC) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|