Alfa Pages

[Paul (not logged in)]

Hi All. I recently brought a book on ebay with many reprinted roadtests of the Alfa 33 from the original Mk1 through to the P4. It was interesting to read the Autocar report from 1990 on the Mk33 16 Valve. Apparantly they felt that the car had a great engine but was let down by average handling in the dry and poor handling in the wet. In the review of the P4 they also felt that the handling was not brilliant and that the steering lacked feel. Interestingly, in the 16 valve test report they stated that the Peugeot 309 GTi was the best car in the class.

I've been driving 33's for so long that I've got used to them and thought the handling was okay..if a little suspect in the wet! I have not driven any other hot hatches so can't really comment..but is the 33's handling that bad? My M reg 16 valve has the later style gas struts and seems okay.

What do you reckon?

Paul.

[Jon]

Well, the series 3 has amazing performance, but I reckon the handling is a bit dodgy:

-Car goes from side to size when floored from rest - torque steer I guess
-Car has floaty feeling on the motorway, over assisted power steering
-Car has terrible turning circle (not great for inner city driving)

Despite those gripes I rather have a 33 than a Pug 206gti as it is a bit different, more practical, faster (in 16v form) and dead cheap nowadays!

[Ben_nz]

I don't think I can judge much of the 33's original handling from my car, because of probable worn suspension and braking components. I'm no racing driver either.

But I know my car's turning circle is bad and the steering is heavy, which you might expect is a trade-off for good steering feedback.. but I can't say I've noticed any.
On less smooth open roads my car feels unsettled and skittery, especially going over bumps when cornering. It feels like the wheels and axle stay still but the back of the car wobbles around. I've noticed the rear seems to grip very well (compared to the front), and no doubt the car could corner quickly. The heavy, not-that-quick steering, difficult gearchange and unpredictable brakes just don't always encourage me to try my luck at higher speeds.

My last car, a cruisy model Mitsubishi Cordia with trailing arm rear suspension, seemed to have a tendency for weight transfer when you turned into a corner that would either cause the car to feel more neutral than my 33, or to want to oversteer and spin (which I did several times, once ending up in a bank!)..

I still have fun in the 33 on wet roundabouts and low-speed corners doing the FWD thing - foot goes down, car goes straight. Foot lifts off, car corners again. Can't gain speed, can't help the understeer. But can have a lot of fun.

[paddy granger]

With 195/50 tyres, and stiff suspension, the series 3 handles very well. On the track at Spa, the car had amazing cornering ability, pretty much endless grip.

With the standard suspension, the car does tend to roll when going around corners fast, a bit like a 2cv but not as bad.

I would say that with the lowered suspension and wide tyres it handles better than the 147. The 147 does understeer when pushed, but gives you plenty of warning.

I think the 33 is rather well balanced. Only real problem is the brakes...

[Guest]

Hi

Put 16v brakes front, Ferodo pads or similar, good drilled or grooved disks and most importantly good competition fluid in it. There will be no problem with the brakes anymore, even when on track.

Seen it done, so we can all get good brakes in our cars. No other mods were made.

TimoJ 33s2 project

[paddy granger]

Indeed, the fluid is the most important. Standard (DOT 3 I think) gets too hot, is DOT 4 the best option?

[Eddie W]

Personally I've always felt that the 33 was pretty good in the handling dept. But then I came to them from a stock Jappa and had been out of performance stuff for some time so the contrast was quite marked.However my S1 was very forgiving when I was pressing on over a winding, undulating road I used to travel to go hunting. It was quite bumpy and the 33 would fly off the bumps on a bend and just land and keep tracking on the original line without deviating. It was very exhilerating to the point where some of the locals indicated displeasure. There may be cars that could do it qicker but none that would be more fun. The S1 I believe is slightly more progressive than the S2 but not quite as much grip on a smooth road.
The 33 is after all not a young car anymore and most can do with shocks and bushes etc. Although I have been advised against it by one of our local Alfa specialists I am still planning to replace the standard bushes with urethane. Their theory was that it induced cracking of the front chassis but I think this is rectifiable(ie S3 braces) and happens without Urethane anyway.
Regards Eddie
_________________
A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

[Guest]

Hi

Dot 4, Bendix racing fluid. There is better fluids available, make Your choise out of racing fluids.
They are expensive, but worth every penny when on track.

TimoJ

cleaning the garage after a flood

[Guest]

[Guest]

Hi

No petrol, sewer flood due to heavy rain. Over 1ft sh*tty water in basement, covered 3 engines and a gearbox. Project 33 was nearly drowned-- floorlevel in the **. Luckily no seats or textiles in the car anymore.

Had to dismantle all engines, 2 of them were in good running condition

Sorry about OT but had to tell. All car projects are not only sunshine and beer..not giving up though, it is my only 33 and it will run one day.

Have to get more beer

TimoJ

[paddy granger]

Timo,

That sounds terrible - sorry to hear about it. The 33 will run one day I am sure - when there is will, there is always a way.

Paddy

[James Granger]

Yes, Paddy was looking a bit nervous when I was hammering the car around Spa in the wet! He kept on saying "aren't you going a bit too fast - don't loose it..." The brakes just got better and better, although after a few more hard laps I'm sure they would have faded.

The 33 has endless grip, with 195 tyres it grips like no other FWD car I've driven. In fact the sensation I get is - it can't possibly go any quicker around the corner, because when it will break loose, I'll loose it. I've never experienced any tyre squeal, no matter how hard I push it. The stiffer suspension which our car has, helps the cornering but makes you suffer on bumpy roads!

The turning circle on most Alfa's is sh*te but, if anybody considers that as a factor of handling they should buy a Mini.

I have a copy of a CAR test between the 33 1.7 16V, Renault 5 Turbo, Peugeot 205 GTI, Mini Cooper, Mazda 323F, Citroen AX GTI, Ford Fiesta XR3i, Rover 114 GTi, VW Golf GTI 8v, plus maybe a few others. The mag is in France, but I recalled they considered the 33 as having a great engine, gorgeous steering wheel and good handling, but poor fit and finish and an ape-like driving position. PS LJK Setright is a knob (my father once spotted him at an airport with the legend 'LJK' embroided on the back of his anorak.

Next time I'm over I'll take it back to scan in.

[paddy granger]

James, my concern was the handicapped child in the back seat. It was a special drive around the circuit for cancer patients.

It was not a race, but I must admit is was great fun.

[Serpent33]

I personally find 33's handling excellent. Lowest CG. The difference between 33 and the highly rated sud is shorter wheel base, lower unsprung weight(in board brakes) and lower CG(lesser body weight). I prefer the 33 because of higher speed corner stability. Excellent feeback. In my country, no other Alfa's 2.0l and below has been ever able to take the boxer engined alfa on the race track. Of course there might be many other factors. Not many old alfa's left maybe.
_________________
Each time I speed I say, "Dear lord, make me fast and accurate..."

[Sergio]

James, what suspension setup do you have on your 33?

all the best

Sérgio

[paddy granger]

Sérgio,

James is away in Antwerpen this week, so I'll reply! The suspension setup is nothing special, as the standard shock absorbers are still used. The springs are 30mm lower, and are a very stiff compound. The camber angle etc was adjusted to the standard specifications before we changed the springs as the steering was not self centering. After we changed the springs, we did not re-adjust the setup as it felt fine. The tyres are Michelin Pilot Exalto, 195/50 R15, with 2.2 Bar front and rear. When the car has people inside, the camber looks rather negative

[Sergio]

Paddy,

Are those springs lower than the QV 16v'ers? Mine, in the front is very very low... (original springs9 the rear isn't very low though. I had to change the rear bushes, and I have to say the car seems alot more solid regarding the handling (AR bushes not powerflex ). I'm running some Monroe Reflex (gas-charged) shocks and I have 185/60r14 tyres and I can get them skwealling their hearts out... She only goes off-line because of the torque steer in 2nd gear at the exit of curves

all the best

Sérgio