Alfa Pages

skidpro · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:05 am Post subject: Big Brakes needed

Hi everyone,

Its great to see so many people keeping the 33 dream alive!

I have a Minari kitcar based on a 1983 Alfa 33 1500. The problem I have is that the brakes are fine for normal day to day driving but tend to fade with sprited driving such as a high speed blast down twisty country roads/track days which require lots of dabs of the brakes.

I've seen a few postings that say OMP discs and pads are the way to go, so can anyone recommend a supplier in the UK (near Nottingham or on the internet?).

Also, the disc diameter of 239mm is the same for the 1700 model, however, the width of the 1700 vented discs is 22mm as opposed to 11mm. My question is, do I have to fit the 1700 calipers and carriers or will the standard 1500 setup do?

Also, has anyone had any success in fitting calipers (ie. 4-pot) from another car (someone told me to use Jaguar brakes)?

Matt Stolton · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:29 am Post subject: Easy Upgrades

Using the vented discs from the 1.7 is an improvement on the solid discs, but you will have to use the larger/wider 1.7 calipers to accept the 22mm disc.

If you are looking for inexpensive upgrades, you can do what I did. I used a Alfa 75 2.0 TS front caliper, which is a lightweight brembo twin pot. I had a pair of brackets made, to space the caliper further off from the strut, and had some 285mm discs made up, which look very similar to the 145 Cloverleaf front discs.

However, much as pads are readily available, anti rattle plates, retaining pins, pistons and rubbers are all obsolete, so your calipers have to be sourced in A1 condition. Alternatively, you could source an aftermarket caliper, which could give less headaches re spares.

The people who made my brackets and discs, are called Hi-Spec Motorsport and were very good, and not expensive. It cost me £230, for 2 brackets, 2 discs, and a kit of bolts/nuts to coble it all together. I did spend another £30 on the calipers, but refurbing them cost me a small fortune. I had a set of stainless pins/plates and bleed screws made, which cost about £100. On top of this, I got the last set of pistons and rubbers in the country for a further £30. When you consider a hispec 4 pot lightweight caliper are around £130 each, aftermarket becomes very viable.

The end product, after several coats of red brake paint, looks good, and stops brilliantly, but was a major hassle. Aftermarket would be easier.

This also assumes you have larger than standard rims. I'm running 15" OZ rims, which offer enough clearance. Other rims and sizes wil obviously affect suitability.
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Ken McCarthy · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:20 am Post subject: Brakes

Matt

What were the offset brackets made out of? - mild steel or aluminium alloy. If alloy, do you know the spec?

Regards
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

Ketil-no · Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:00 am Post subject:

Matt,
This is so so so so beautiful....
It's what I've been waiting for. Is it possible to order the parts (the disc and the adapter) from Hi-spec Motorsport? Do they have the drawings so they can make it to every one that ask?

Regards
Ketil

lesthegringo · Alfasud Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 97

I bought some Willwood Dynalite II forged aluminium four pot calipers while I was over in the states. The cost me about €100 each, weigh about 1kg each, and with a set of soft pads are good for discs up to about 350mm.

On my mid-mounted 16v 33 engined 'kit' I have used them with 'Sud front discs (265mm dia) with an adapter disc and brackets to mount them onto the Cortina hubs and carriers I'm using, and they fit brilliantly.

I am now thinking about doing the same on my Sprint, which has 33 suspension on it, as it would increase the diameter of the front discs (from 240mm) and would remove about 2 kgs from each wheel. I'll take some pictures tonight and try and post them up. In the meanntime, as a trial attempt, here's pictures of the part finished car I'm working on

lesthegringo · Alfasud Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 97

Well, failed trying to attach a picture - who can teach me how?

Les

paddy granger · Alfa Sprint Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 248

Hi Gringo!

First of all, you have to put the pictures on the internet. Once you have done so, you have to know what their individual addresses are.

For example: http://www.lesthegringo.com/les1.jpg

(The link should not work!!)

Once you have the addresses, you start to post a reply on the forum as you normally would do. You will notice a couple of buttons at the top of the 'Post a reply' box, including once called 'Img'. Press this button, then paste the address of the picture, and then press the button again. Then press enter, and do the same for the next picture. Pressing enter makes sure that the pictures are displayed on top on one another.

It is important to only paste the address part, and no empty spaces.

Good luck,

Patrick

PS: If you do have some problems, you can mail me the pictures at my address (patrickgranger@granger-marketing.com), and I will sort them out.

Matt Stolton · Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject: Answers

Ken - The brackets are aliminium, and all I know is it is the high grade/aero type stuff, i.e. no casting flaws, etc. The brackets were CNC machined from billet blanks.

Similarly the Discs were ground to fit the wheel/caliper/strut, but they appear to have the same offset and diameter as the 145 cloverleaf items.....

Ketil-no - For a 'custom' caliper like mine, they need a strut and hub, your caliper and a wheel, to guarantee clearances. However, before you just get hold of a 75 brembo twin pot, be warned, that brembo seemed to change there castings regularly, so bracket mounting points can differ significantly.

Alternatively, they can sell you a complete kit including one of there own calipers. You simply supply them the details of your car, wheels, and your choice of caliper, and away they go. Check out there web site for more info and prices.
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Matt Stolton · Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject: More questions

Les- Much as reducing the weight of the caliper, from using steel, to ali, makes a huge saving on unsprung weight, I think my system is back to where it was, due to the bigger discs adding weight back onto the strut. Overall, I think I'm down overall in unsprung weight, which can only be good.

However, do bigger discs contribute to ' larger gyroscopic flywheel' type handling traits, i.e. the wheels don't want to change the angle of spin, i.e. steer? Does this pail into insignificance compared with the rim/tyre size/weight, or is it measurable and influence turn in or other handling traits?
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Ken McCarthy · Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: Brakes

Matt

Thanks for the info. The front upgrade seems achievable. Upgrading from drums to discs at the rear is another matter, the two main issues being mounting the disc on the hub (different hub or machine off the drum except for the centre and wheel bolt mounting and mount the disc over it) and mounting the caliper (?design a mounting plate with caliper mounts to replace the back plate from the drums?). After that there is the handbrake issue. If I could find an assembly that included a bolt on stub axle like the 33 (2 wheel drive) it would be easier.

I have noted the 155 2.5i V6, 92-97 has the size discs I am looking for with similar offsets and 4 hole wheel mounting but these cars were not sold in Australia so I can't have a look at one. Does anyone know what the hub, caliper mounting and handbrake details are like on this car?

Interesting topic.

Best regards
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Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

Eddie W · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:52 am Post subject:

As you say Ken an interesting topic and one that is close to my heart. Also an example of the forum working at its best. I understand that the 2.0 T/S 155 was also 4 bolt, does anybody have specs on its discs?
Matt, good you live in England and I'm in NZ. I'd kill for those wheels Razz

Regards Eddie
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A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

Ketil-no · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject:

Matt: thanks for your info.

Les: what is the piston size on your wilwood calipers? I see that they are very cheap to buy in US. And AHMotorsport also use them. Did you have any problem with the fact there is no dust seals on them?

Regards Ketil

Ken McCarthy · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:48 am Post subject: Big Brakes

Just to pursue this a bit further - does anyone have access to exploded views, as in a parts manual, of rear disc brake and hub of a front wheel drive 33 16V or a 155 2.5i V6, 92-97 (or any 155)?

Thanks
_________________
Ken McCarthy - 16V Sprint

mark pollard · Guest

Hi Skid pro - good to see another Minari uprating their car - are you a member of the Minari Owners Register? If so then you will have read the story below in full. (in abreviated form here)

On my race Minari, I used Willwood billet Superlite IIA front calipers, with Willwood tan pads for road use and Willwood Poly B pads for racing. Discs were 284 x 22 drilled discs from an Integrale 16v. The adapter brackets were made by Ashford Motorsport in Kent who used to list it as a kit of parts.
On the rear, I cut off the 33 axle end pads and welded plates to the tube drilled to match Alfasud stub axle assemblies. Discs from a Suzuki GSXR 750 bike bolted to modified Alfasud disc centres. Calipers were Willwood billet Dynalite single (2 pot) and as it was a road legal car, the handbrake was a Willwood mechanical spot caliper. All bits and brackets sourced from Rally Design and Ashford M'sport.
Fluid pressure provided by using twin master cylinders with bias adjustment conversion from AHM (Adie Hawkins) and Goodridge lines.(No servo set up)
No problems with brake corrosion over 4 years of use, but I only did about 5k miles a year.
Good luck,
Mark

mark pollard · Guest

To Ken McCarthy,
Fiat Tipo 16v brakes are much the same as the Alfa 155 - these may have been sold in Aus?
Cheers,
Mark

Toad. · Guest

The anti rattle plates and pins for the brembo 75 calipers are available from Ferodo part no. FBA 402

Matt Stolton · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject: I think I tried that..

Thanks Toad,

I did get my hands on some pins and plates that claimed to fit, and the packaging on the unopened box, said it would fit the calipers. However, they turned out to be for the non vented, solid discs, and steel calipers, and were too short.

It might be worth me ordering them from a different source, in case it was a incorrect part sent. I will let you know.

How did you get the part number? Is it something you have done too?
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Matt Stolton · Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject: I think I tried that..

Thanks Toad,

I did get my hands on some pins and plates that claimed to fit, and the packaging on the unopened box, said it would fit the calipers. However, they turned out to be for the non vented, solid discs, and steel calipers, and were too short.

It might be worth me ordering them from a different source, in case it was a incorrect part sent. I will let you know.

How did you get the part number? Is it something you have done too?
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Eddie W · Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:23 am Post subject:

Matt, As a matter of interest how thick are your rotors?
Regards Eddie
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A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

Matt Stolton · Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: Not Sure but

I beleive they are 22mm, very similar to the 145 cloverleaf items, as is the offset/et type measurements, as is the overall diameter of 285mm
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Guest · Guest

Hi

Brembo has a good site of brakedisks, all measurements available. There is a search for any disk they make, including picture and sizes.

TimoJ

My 2c..