Alfa Pages

rjbevan · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject: Oil Filters

I have just changed the oil on my Clan Clover (which has the Sud 1.5 8V engine). The oil filter on the car was a Champion C102 but my local car shop got me a Mann W714/2 (which was the filter listed for the Alfa). The Champion filter is much larger whilst the Mann is smaller in diameter but appears to have a valve (as viewed down the central hole). Which (if any!) is correct? Also is the valve a bypass valve (which opens when the filter gets clogged - Is this a good idea?).

Regards

Richard

Admin · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:27 am Post subject:

Hi

The boxer engine needs a valve to stop oil draining back through the filter when the engine is turned off. This is probably missing from the Champion oil filter. Almost all oil filters will have a bypass valve. Pretty essential unless you want to blow various seals

The original Alfa filters are quite small

All the best

Keith

micap · Alfasud Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 62 Location: Denmark

What does this valve look like and exactly were is it located? Was just wondering since I've just changed my filter, and didn't notice a valve, neither on the old or new filter.
_________________
/Michael

ex 89 1.7 QV
now 85 1.5 QV with 1.7 engine.

alexj · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 1:29 pm Post subject:

Most quality brands should be o.k. I'm told that Alfa Romeo uses (or once used?) Tecnocar filters. Only filter I've had problems with was a FRAM which seemed to have a faulty anti-drain valve.

Each time I parked the car and switched off the engine, it seems like the oil drained out of the filter (into the sump). The next time the engine was started, it took too long to build up oil pressure. I replaced the filter before it could cause damage and never used FRAM again.

There's a good (US based) study on oil filters on these pages:
http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html
http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy-german.html

The second link covers oil filters for some German cars (mainly VW-Audi) and covers one of the Mann filters.

micap · Alfasud Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 62 Location: Denmark

The new filter I have installed is a Fiaam filter, and since Fram and Fiaam are both products of Sogefi Filtration I am getting a bit concerned that I might have a bad filter. Is the valve important, and what will happen if I drive around with a filter without a valve?
_________________
/Michael

ex 89 1.7 QV
now 85 1.5 QV with 1.7 engine.

Lee · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject:

Hi, the non return valve stops all your dirty, metal swarfed contaminated oil from going back into your engine and lubricating all the important bits with nasty oil.

Its always better to use a proper Alfa part as they have the valve, and are`nt much more expensive than the cheaper varieties.

Dont know who actually makes them for Alfa though, but they would be to their spec at least!

Lee
_________________
`97 155 2.0 16v sport
`91 33 1.7 I.E

Guest · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the replies. My local Car shop told me that the Mann filters are very good - mind you at £8.50 it should be as I pay half this for my usual car. In reply to MICAP's question as to where the valve is, if you look down the central threaded hole, you should see a coiled spring and I presume this is the anti-drain valve. I suppose with the filter being mounted high on the block then you need something to stop the oil draining back to the sump when you switch off. Having just bought the Clover then I am trying to do a few jobs on the car to see how it goes together - though I'm not looking forward to checking the tappets as access leaves a lot to be desired. But the car makes a lovely noise and is very rapid!

Richard Smile

Gary UK · Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:36 pm Post subject:

The valve also stops the oil draining from the hydraulic tappets but as your car has a 1.5 sud engine this is not a problem

Scott Sander · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:05 pm Post subject:

While we are talking Oil Filters I thought I might point you to my web site, I have included (as of 5 mins ago) a picture of two oil filters, both sold by Brian Foley Alfa but at different times for my 16V.

I now use the third option I talk about.
_________________
Scott Sander
'91 Alfa 33 Boxer 16V Monza - Awesome
http://www.sanderfamily.com

alexj · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:41 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure what car the Tecnocar R122 (photo on Scott's web page) is intended for, but on the Tecnocar site, the filter they list for Alfasud Ti 1.5 (95bhp/105bhp) and Alfa 33 Qv 1.7 and most Alfa 33 variants is the R123.

Some other Alfa Romeo use the R125 (Alfetta GT 1.8, Alfa 75 1.8/2.0 and some Alfasud). Both the R123 and R125 are larger than the R122.

Tecnocar R122
Height : 85 mm
Outside Diameter. : 76 mm
Thread size : 3/4"-16

Tecnocar R123
Height : 101 mm
Outside Diameter. : 76 mm
Thread size : 3/4"-16

Tecnocar R125
Height : 101 mm
Outside Diameter. : 76 mm
Thread size : 3/4"-16

Tecnocar homepage is http://www.filtrauto.com/

If you want (or need) to try different filters, remember most Alfa Romeo from the 1970's/80's use the same filter mounting, gasket and same requirement for Bypass Valve and Anti-drain valve. You can't use the ones from the very latest Alfa's as they use a 20mm thread instead of the 3/4" thread used on the earlier cars.

At a pinch, you could get away with a filter intended for a Ford small block V8 (e.g. 351 Mustang). It has the same mounting/gasket, but watch out that the larger case isn't too big to fit in a small space. This would suggest that you can use special 'racing' filters like the FRAM HP1, which I'm told is better than the regular FRAM filters (but you pay more).

alexj · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

micap · Alfasud Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 62 Location: Denmark

The oil light goes out right after startup, so I guess it's good enough.
_________________
/Michael

ex 89 1.7 QV
now 85 1.5 QV with 1.7 engine.

Admin · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:50 pm Post subject:

Hi

As far as I understand it the valves to prevent the oil draining back are there to provide oil preasure on start up, irrespective of whether the engine has hydraulic tappets (although that makes it even more important). Without them the lubrication system empties itself into the sump and so provides no oil preasure on startup.

The old Alfa twin cam and the V6 DO NOT use filters with this valve (they also use filters of a substantially larger size). Some cheap oil filter suppliers specify the same filter for the boxer engines as for the V6 and TC, and they do indeed fit. They are likely to shorten engine life though (although to be honest I use some cheap filters occasionally when fushing an engine through)

All the best

Keith

Lee · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:12 pm Post subject:

Hi I noticed somewhere in all the replies someone mentioned they pay £8.50 a non Alfa oil filter. I dont think even the proper Alfa part is even as much as that, not from my local dealer in Ipswich anyway.

Lee
_________________
`97 155 2.0 16v sport
`91 33 1.7 I.E

rjbevan · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:03 pm Post subject: Oil filters

Hi, well I thought it was a simple question and didn't expect such a good response! With regard to Lee's reply, I've always assumed the main dealers would be expensive but maybe in future I should try them first. It all started when I was in my local car shop that I have used for years and was browsing through their catalogues (with a kit car it's hunt the part!). Anyway they didn't have one in stock and offered to get one but I never thought the filter would be £8.50 but couldn't say no when they had gone to the trouble of getting it for me! So I'll have to go and check out my local Alfa dealer.

Regards Richard Very Happy

Admin · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:23 pm Post subject:

Hi

Not sure of the official price for filters these days from Alfa, but it would not surprise me if it is around £8 a time

I bought a 10 pack from Mangoletsi at Alfa day the year before last for £50, so £5 each.

All the best

Keith

Scott Sander · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:42 pm Post subject:

TimoJ (Fin) · Guest

[quote="alexj"]

Lee · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:27 pm Post subject:

In reply to what Keith says about the UK alfa day, its fantastic. Well worth visiting, but make sure you have wads of cash, theres far too many goodies and spares you just have to have. Laughing

Mangoletsies stall of new bits are well cheap, and all proper Alfa.

Also saying about dealer prices, the Selenia oil is well priced, costs about £35- £40 for enough for an oil change.

Lee
_________________
`97 155 2.0 16v sport
`91 33 1.7 I.E

alexj · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:14 pm Post subject: