Alfa Pages

[Ben_nz]

My 33 doesn't use oil or water, and gets 470km to a tank of petrol.
But it has always made a bit of a ticking sound, which I assumed was a noisy lifter.
So I changed the oil today, switching to a different brand, checking with the shop that the new oil filter had a non-return valve, and I even bought some lifter-silencing oil additive.
The additive instructions were:
* Add in the first 3 litres of new oil and run the motor up to temperature
* Mix the additive with the last litre of oil then add that to the engine.
But when I opened the oil filler cap with the motor running,

it was like my car had a second exhaust pipe!
Surely the piston rings couldn't all be that worn after 130,000kms, even if the previous owners didn't treat the car well?!
Tell me the car is designed to operate that way!

I thought the motor was the only part of a 33 that wasn't allowed to go wrong.
In 6 months of owning this car I've never tried removing the oil filler cap with the motor running. Never suspected anything.
The car is booked in at the garage on Wednesday to get the gearchange and brakes checked, but now I'll also ask them to do a compression test..
Looks like my Alfa may need a new Alfa!

[gritsop]

Hi Ben,

Does your car smoke blue in the exhaust? or does it pass the emission test?

Anyway I think that these additives just burn out the debris that has accumulated inside the engine throughout the years.

If your engine does not use oil then you dont have a problem.

Regards from Greece,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Ben_nz]

Gritsop - New Zealand doesn't have emissions testing yet! Your car can be as smoky as you want and nobody can stop you. Our 'clean, green' image is marketing hype to help tourism.

My 33 doesn't make blue smoke and the oil level didn't change noticeably in the last 5000km / 6 months. So I don't know why so much air was blowing out the oil filler cap! I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen!
Cracked piston?
Problem with a valve?
Some gasket or seal?
Alfas use a fan-forced sump ventilation system?
Just my imagination?

[dickus]

HI...

Ive had smoke in my oil system from warming up the motor with too little oil (litre short). Even forced its way under the tappet cover plates(mechanical tappets). First time I used one of the huge orange oil filters. Stayed calm and added more oil... all was well.

Dick

[kevnz]

HI,

my oil filler puffs loads at idle, (enough to lift the cap off!) but it gets less with a few revs. My 33 has high k's but I was told it had been reconditioned which I imagine would have included replacing the rings....So
Btw where did you get the new Oil filter as I'm in the market for one at the moment.

regards Kev

[Ben_nz]

[John Hansen]

A couple of points:
I use the Ryco Z421 filters and they seem to be ok
My engine goes 10,000 kms between filter and oil change and I don't have to add oil in between the changes
One time when I was adding an additive while engine was running, I lifted the oil filler cap and ended up with all the additive over my tie - it was blown back at me, therefore, add the additive with engine stopped!
Morale of the story: I don't know if having something blown back at you means a sick engine.
BTW I have approx 337000 kms on the clock and still hit the rev limiter every so often - although at the moment I'm driving "sans 2nd gear" as the synchro is gone.
_________________
John H
'87 Alfa 33 QV

[kevnz]

All of those options look equally unappealing, I guess what they say about german cars in the Dog and Lemon guide is turning true with your 33.- If you can't afford a new german car you can't afford a second hand one either! Sounds like with the cash you've parted with you could have got a pretty good but souless jap machine.

I'm motoring on a fairly tight budget, and have with apart from rplacing the windscreen been able to most of the stuff on my 33 myself. With help from our online guru here! I even had a go at welding up some rusty sills with a mig welder form hirepool for its warrant. (messy but it passed)

I got mine for $450 about a year ago. And i've probably spent about the same on parts, Shock, screen, headlight,wheel bearing, brake cylinder, so all in all if you don't count the evenings and weekends up to elbows in oil, I've had a cheap ride so far. I'm shit scared its all about to come crashing to a halt after saying that out loud!

Still mine looks like a mess, but goes a little better, it still needs a lot doing that I can't afford, but hey it gets me to work like clockwork and at least I can understand what I'm fiddling with under the bonnet, as I can't really afford to pay some one to fiddle for me!

Good luck and like what they say about the warriors...Keep the Faith

[Ben_nz]

[Eddie W]

Hi Ben, My Sympathies with your troubles. Give me a ring sometime on 2798748 and I might be able to put you on to someone who can help. My 1500 had a ticking sound at idle and after much investigation it turned out that somebody( possibly the factory) had fitted both gudgeon circlips on one side of the piston on two pots. Exit one block! Talk about pissed off. Not that much blowby though. You can't give up. Ring me.
Regards Eddie
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A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

[Ben_nz]

Update: After visiting Eddie's friend today I'm less worried that the engine might blow up. =)
The noise appears to be coming from the top of the engine on the left bank, and removing the plug lead from cylinder 2 seems to have a lesser effect than for any of the other cylinders. I'm gonna keep driving the car, give the additive a chance to work, and if things don't improve then the head will have to be removed to trace the problem.

The guy took the air cleaner and 90-degree-bend induction pipe thingies off the tops of the carburettors, and I learnt where the idle jets are, what an emulsion tube is, and most importantly that the engine sounds very very cool like that! Gun the engine and there's a beastly snort as the revs pick up, followed by the spitting exhaust backfire as the motor slows down again. Listen to that and you can forgive all kinds of stuff about the car.

[sudman]

My 120,000 odd km 1.7 8v chuffs a bit from the oil filler.... but otherwise its a great engine.

Are 1.7's really $1100 now!!!!

I bought mine from Italian Autos in Onehunga (I think!) and it set me back $750 plus $50 shipping down to Palmerston North, the engine has gone like a dream except for the crook lifter I encountered mid last year!

If you do decide to get rid of it... my Sud is for sale
_________________
Just because it's old... doesn't mean it can't go fast!

[Ben_nz]

What were the symptoms of the crook lifter? Just the high pitched ticking/rattling?
My car's rocking and struggling a bit at idle, and it hardly backfires now.
Your sud's in Christchurch, and still probably works out more expensive than fixing the faults in my 'trusty' 33. You could try putting the sud on TradeMe, cos there aren't many people from New Zealand on this forum. I think it costs around $20 to list a car there.

[ricardo]

hi Ben
your blow by problem can be totally unrelated to the ticking sound ...does the blow by reduce or even out to a neutral pressure with a few revs held on??
i presume that it is a hydraulic tappet type 1.7 not a shimmed tappet
the cam lobes wear if these things are not run on top synthetic oils ..
when the daughter wakes i will check out ur sound file ..
_________________
alfa romeo trofeo series new zealand, video site .
http://alfa-racing.blip.tv/

alfatrofeo blog and interesting stuff .... unofficial ....
http://alfatrofeo.blogspot.com/

[Ben_nz]

[ricardo]

errr ben maybe it's slipped the cam belt ..or snapped it ..... who is ur mechanic up there ??
_________________
alfa romeo trofeo series new zealand, video site .
http://alfa-racing.blip.tv/

alfatrofeo blog and interesting stuff .... unofficial ....
http://alfatrofeo.blogspot.com/

[Ben_nz]

It could be that something happened with the cambelt or one of its pulleys.. I did just have the belts changed a few thousand kms ago, not that that makes me exempt.
The car is at The Italian Job service centre, and I should hear back from them tomorrow.

[Ben_nz]

Spoke to the mechanic today.. he reckons it could have been a cambelt tensioner failure. Whatever it was, I now need new valves (so that's what those noises were!), new lifters, new/reground camshaft, one new cambelt, tensioner bearing, gaskets etc.. no rebuild or new pistons though.
Total cost to repair the engine, coincidentally, comes to exactly what I paid for the car.

Guess who should have had the mechanics disassemble the engine and fix the noise as soon as it started, up at the top of this discussion topic. I'd at least have saved the cost of the valves.

OR, my other option is a lucky dip second hand 1.7 engine, at around NZ$1700 incl GST fitted.
My other other option is a 1.5 engine, but I don't know whether that's a very fun option.
And while the engine's out of the car, I might as well have the clutch replaced so I don't get stuck in neutral when the lights turn green. Add in another $350.
The annoying thing is, if I hadn't had the timing belts changed or changed the oil, I bet the evil little car would be running fine just now, at a loss as to how to break and cost me money.

[Eddie W]

Hi Ben, who the hell did your canbelts as they should have checked the condition of the tensioners. Glen made me do mine when I did the belts on all three. The engine shouldn't need to come out for this job.Keep in touch.
Regards Eddie
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A LITTLE FURTHER A LITTLE FASTER

[Ben_nz]

Cambelts were done at Avanti Autos. They're an Italian-ish car garage who are a good deal cheaper than Italian Auto Centre. When I was there, they had a GTV6 and a Daimler in the workshop, but the mechanics both drive Japanese cars.
They must be onto something!
The guys were nice and friendly, showed me the water pump and timing belts they removed etc, but they put the choke cable back wrong and (oh no!) left a hose clip in the engine bay.
The new belts made a bit of a whine, which I assumed was normal and would reduce as the belts aged.
Nothing was mentioned about tensioners, and I wasn't aware that tensioner failure was an issue with Alfa boxer engines.

I believe that the engine is already out of my car.. Not knowing how damaged the motor was, I think the mechanic just removed it to aid assessment and probable replacement.


Edit: No more dumb questions. I went to see the mechanic today, he showed me my cambelt tensioner and a good one side by side. The whole part of the pulley that the belt rides on had cracked off and gone who knows where.
The mechanic who has the car now always changes tensioners when cambelts are done, otherwise writes out a disclaimer on the receipt if the customer won't accept that the tensioners should be replaced.
Eddie, looks like Glen has got the right idea too!
I intend to let the garage who changed the timing belts know what happened, although I don't expect to be able to recover any repair costs from them.

[Matt Stolton]

The reason the first guys are cheaper, is because they sound a little incompatent!!

It is nearly negligent to replace belts only. I know tensioners are not the cheapest item, and neither is the process of getting the belts changed, but no mechanic worth his salt should panda to a customer 'who only wants belts'. Your new mechanic is dead right to insist on tensioners as well as belts. It means he can then give a open hearted assurance to the end user that the job has been done properly, and will last untill the correct service interval.

Whilst we are on this subject, there are many that say belts need changing only every 70K miles. However, if you find the original Alfa DEALER service guide, they only recomend 70K KM, i.e. about 45K miles!!! There has been 25K miles lost in translation, which is not good.

It must be prudent to change belts no later than 30K miles anyway, especially when you consider the stress the belts takes, and the sheer force involved in turning a cam shaft, of which we have at least 2, four if your lucky.
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

[gritsop]

Hi,

Well timing belts are surely a thing that everyone should NOT neglect. In my country garages replace belts & tensioner every 50000 kms. The cost of the tensioners (SKF) is 60€ and around 40€ the belts.

Also we should take into account the fact that official documents usually measure service intervals in kms but keep in mind that when city driving speeds do not exceed 10-15 kms we have to consider another measurement unit - hours of operation.
So, 50000kms replace interval can be achieved in merely 2-3 years but actually the hours of the engine running renders the belts "tired" and losing their efficiency much quicker.

I hope you guys got to the point that replacing them gets you out of bigger trouble

Regards from the candidate Euro 2004 championship ,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

[Ben_nz]

I haven't been able to find a satisfactory 1.7 engine yet.. One I looked at this weekend ticked and clattered like mine used to (worn camshaft lobes and lifters, too expensive to fix ).

The mechanic is wondering whether he can convert my motor to solid lifters, like in the early 1.5 motors with the removable cam cover (?).
From what I hear, on these motors the cam pulley and cam profile are different, and the valves are a different length, so you can't just swap some parts into the hydraulic lifter heads. Is this correct?

Is it possible to take the whole solid lifter head and bolt it to the 1.7 block? What changes will there be to port sizes, compression ratio, performance?

Some people say 1.5 33s have shorter gearing than 1.7 models, so putting a 1.5 motor in my car would make it struggle more to take off. My manual shows that the final drive ratio is different (9/35 for 1.5Ti, 10/37 for 1.7QV), but doesn't give the gear ratios. How significant are the differences? Could I get away with using a 1.5 motor with my 1.7 gearbox?

[Eddie W]

Hi Ben, I spoke to Arthur after you did and he was adamant that the combustion chamber arrangement is different between the 1.5 and 1.7 motors which means that they are not readily interchangeable. The 1.5 has a pronounced dish in the piston crown and a minimal chamber in the head, I haven't seen a 1.7 apart yet so I'm not sure what the difference is that he is talking about. Perhaps somebody in the chatroom can enlighten us?
However the main impediment to the solid lifter conversion seems to be the longer valves required for the solid setup. Arthur told me that the last of the Sprints with 1.7 motors were solid lifter so that means the valves must be procurable somewhere. As I understand it the inlet for the 1,7 is bigger and the exhausts the same which suggests that !.5 exhausts could be used and the problem comes down to sourcing the longer inlets.
However that probably doesn't fit well with your time constraints and the time involved in sorting it may not be cost effective in a commercial garage.
By the way I bought that write off that we looked at for spares and I'll let you know when I've investigated the engine noises.
Regards Eddie
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