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Alfa Pages
A forum for help with the Alfasud And Alfa 33
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: Dunlop Targa NZ |
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The Dunlop Targa NZ is an annual tarmac rally which features basically every kind of car from classic to just-out-of-the-showroom. Most of the entrants are private amateurs and the variety of vehicles make interesting watching.
Today was the first day of the 2004 event, with scrutineering and a chance to wander around checking out the cars before they head off to the closed roads for some racing.
The entry field comprised just about any kind of car you can think of.
British:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/JAG_1.JPG
Japanese:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/260Z.JPG
(there were dozens of Type R Integras and Toyota Levin/Trueno/Corolla/Lexus etc but they're all boring)
German:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/635CSI.JPG
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/OLD_911.JPG
Australian:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/TORANA.JPG
Italian:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/FIAT_124.JPG
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/GTV.JPG <- driven by all-female team!
French:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/205_T16.JPG <- one of those 80s WRC cars, Group B or whatever, that were banned for being too fast and dangerous..
There were so many cool cars your eyes would boggle, but one I'll be cheering for is the little car of Stuart Chandler and Mike Humphrey:
Good luck guys!
Here's a movie clip of them leaving the marshalls and heading off down the road:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/33.MPG (925kb!)
I spoke to their support crew about bracing the front chassis rails, and apparently this still hasn't been done on their Targa car. One of the support crew races a Sud though, and he said to weld in the brace bars from a series 3 and check that the strut pan bearings are OK. He reckoned worn strut pan bearings could place extra stress on the chassis rails.
I'm hoping to follow the rally down south tomorrow (in my 33 of course) to get some shots of the cars in action. I'll have to get up very early though! =|
In the carpark at the Targa scrutineering today I spotted this:
I've never seen those double headlights before but that's OK - I think they're ugly.  |
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Wizz
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 101
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Whoa, sounds like a great event - Wish we had stuff like that around here. 
And yes, the Peugeot 205 T16 is nuts!
1775cc, inline 4, 16V, Turbo, 424bhp, 4WD, 910kg. 
I'm hoping we'll get to see some more video clips of the '33. 
And yes, those headlights aren't very nice. 
_________________
//Wizz
Alfa 33, 1.5 IE (1992) (Series 3)... now with 1.7 IE |
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Eddie W
Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Ben , what a great idea to put this on the forum. Pity there was only one 33 and a couple of GTVs to uphold the marque and the 33 I didn't recognise early enough to assess the performance/handling as compared to other ( and lesser) breeds . Still I think they flew the flag pretty well.
We were about a third the way into prologue3,, tight right hander downhill into a tightish entry but opening left hander that required serious commitment if you had some grunt. Pretty impressive.
We had a quick chat with Mark Parsons (TR8) at the service at Rangiriri and he said that although he had featured in past years that only 300hp in a 2WD would be lucky tosee him break the top ten. For the benefit of our overseas chums he is one seriously quick and spectacular competitor who would need an airline bag to carry his gonads. I used to rally against him years ago when he had a V8 Monaro and his idea of fun was !40mph on loose metal. Thats lunacy. That's lethal. That's a lot of heart.More than I've got.
Regards Eddie
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Well I got up at 5:30 this morning and drove for hundreds of kms to get my motorsport fix.
Our boys were still in the race when I left halfway through the day (trying to beat the holiday traffic home) - a quick tyre rotation:
and the car is ready for the next stage.
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/33_INT.JPG
They even have the support vehicle to match!
I brought my beloved original Alfa 33 1.7 QV promotional/sales poster to get autographed by the 33 drivers, and purchased a new marker pen yesterday for the guys to autograph it with. I kept the poster tucked inside my copy of the rally programme so it wouldn't get bent. But it must have fallen out and I lost it!  And I opened the packet of my brand new marker pen and it was all dried up!
So no autographs for me.
When I came back from taking photos on the first stage, I started my 33 and lots of smoke poured out the exhaust! Either my car didn't like me being unfaithful, or it didn't appreciate being parked on a steep sideways slope. 
The other Alfa, the Alfetta GTV, was still going: http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/GTV2.JPG
along with an unattractive Lancia Beta:
http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa/LANCIA2.JPG
and the many fiat 124s and 125s, even the Abarth Bambina thingy with the engine hanging out the back!
Many cool big V8s:
and not-so-big V8s:
| Quote: |
| We had a quick chat with Mark Parsons (TR8) at the service at Rangiriri and he said that although he had featured in past years that only 300hp in a 2WD would be lucky to see him break the top ten. |
I hope the Targa isn't gonna continue to get too professional and commercial, at the expense of being interesting. Watching the rally with the other spectators today it was clear that nobody cared about all those boring late-model Porsches, endless white Type R Integras etc, even if they're the fastest cars. The crowd loves the rorty characterful classics and bellowing V8s, and the more skidding the better!
And when 'Skid' Mark Parsons drifted past in his Triumph he got a round of applause. 
I have many more pictures and movie clips to upload, but I haven't finished assembling the movie clips into a video yet and I'm tired. 
Last edited by Ben_nz on Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eddie W
Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Good report Ben . Look forward to more.
Regards Eddie
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evanbottcher
Alfasud
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Nothing to worry about if you get a bit of smoke on starting, particularly when parked on a sideways slope. Oil left on the cylinder walls tends to run downhill into the combustion chamber on the downwards facing cylinders, then burns off when you start the engine.
Thanks for the report - I see Victorian Alfa Club member Damon changing the tyre in one of the photos. Great stuff!
cheers,
Evan.
_________________
http://www.trofeoalfasud.com
'77 Alfasud Ti
'69 1750 GTV |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:38 am Post subject: |
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I think the oil burning on startup is more to do with the oil in the camshaft housing being able to cover the valve guides on the uphill side of the car. That would definitely allow oil to seep into the cylinders in an extended period. The lower camshaft housing would be the reverse - relatively 'starved' of oil compared with normal parking on a flat surface.
Anyhow, nothing to worry about.
Cheers,
Rob (Perth) |
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
My car also when parked in down slope, the oil light remains on for some milliseconds after the engine has started running.
If parked at level then it goes off actually during cranking.
Nothing to worry about.
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop |
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Oil left on the cylinder walls tends to run downhill into the combustion chamber on the downwards facing cylinders, then burns off when you start the engine. |
Must be those racing tolerances! It's great to own a car where an occasional big cloud of smoke and the oil filler pipe blowing a stronger breeze than the ventilation system are nothing to worry about.
| Quote: |
| Thanks for the report - I see Victorian Alfa Club member Damon changing the tyre in one of the photos. Great stuff! |
Yeah, it's always good to have an Australian to change your tyres for you!
One of the support crew mentioned they were Australian when I spoke to them at the scrutineering. He referred to the series 3 33s as 16-valves, because that's apparently the only series 3 model which was imported into Australia.
I've uploaded more stuff to the http://www.axys.co.nz/ben/targa directory, including a 7Mb movie made from stringing together teensy low-quality digital camera video clips. The movie was going to have music but that increased the filesize, plus this way you can crank up your speakers and feel the engine noise!
Some of the photos look foggy but this was actually condensation on the inside of the camera lens. I had to delete lots of pictures because of this. 
Also there are no more movie clips of the Alfa 33 - it was one of the first cars going through each stage and it zoomed past me before I'd realised and powered up my slow old camera. =(
I figure this is a small forum so I won't be generating too much traffic for the server hosting these files.... 
Next year I'll be back with some better spectator spots, or if I get my car's act together I could enter the non-competition 'Targa Tour'. They don't time you, but you get to drive your street car on some of the same closed roads and race circuits, following the rally around and getting firsthand experience of what it's like. This year's Targa Tour cars included some Ferraris and a Bentley Continental GT - I guess they can afford the $1500 entry fee! |
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evanbottcher
Alfasud
Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Posts: 53
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Rob: Much better explanation, makes much more sense given the amount of oil that's burnt! My bad. 
cheers,
Evan.
_________________
http://www.trofeoalfasud.com
'77 Alfasud Ti
'69 1750 GTV |
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Eddie W
Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Ben, keep up the good work. Wish I had your IT skills to be able to do this sort of thing. I've been thinking about one those digital cameras that have movie capability. Do you know much about them>
Daughters car blows the odd puff of smoke on startup, sometimes in the driveway at home which has bugger all slope. I put it down to an Italian critique of my driving,or the weather, or you haven't cleaned me for two days, or boredom,or......
It's probably Valve stem seals which on most of the motors are pretty hard by now. If I remember right from rebuilding my 1.5 they only have them on the inlets.
Anyway It's not something I'd worry about although I can sympathise entirely with your feelings when they do their best to give a public impression of being an old clanker on it's last legs.That's when you feel like taking it behind the shed and giving it a good talking to with a thin stick. Still they do make up for it in other ways.
Regards Eddie
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Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| I've been thinking about one those digital cameras that have movie capability. Do you know much about them? |
The one that my family own is several years old now and I'm sure technology has improved a lot. Our camera can only record 5, 10 or 15-second movies unless it's set to its lowest quality setting. It also takes too long to start up (when you hear a car coming, it's too late), runs out of battery during a day's motorsport spectating, and it's hard to photograph fast-moving things without them blurring.
There's a big range of digital cameras available so you don't have to buy something fancy. I'm not familiar with current products though.
The Targa has finished.
Results are here:
http://www.targa.co.nz/index.asp?page=results
The overall winner was some boring Porsche.
The Alfa 33 came 125th out of 198 finishers, beating such cars as BMW 325i, Type R Integra, Nissan Skyline, Escort RS2000, two Toyota Celicas, two Fiat 124s, two Ford Thunderbirds, three Mazda RX7s,the Alfetta GTV (173rd) and a mighty Datsun 120Y. 
Also on the Targa results page is an 'index of performance', where the cars are ranked according to a score which takes into account stuff like vehicle age (not design age, dammit!), engine size and overall placing. So a little old Mini which came 100th overall might rate better in the index of performance than a more modern V12 Jaguar which placed 80th.
In the index of performance the Alfa 33 placed 117th equal out of 198, ahead of a Porsche Boxster S, Porsche 911 C2, bunches of grunty V8s, the Alfetta GTV and a mighty Datsun 120Y. |
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gritsop
Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Eddie, about the digicam.
In early summer I bought a HP735 digital camera, which cost me around 210€. It has 3.2 Megapixel analysis, memory of 256 MB (memory card), can catch fast moving objects, nice night capabilities etc.
Ideal for the every-now-and-then photographer.
Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop |
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Chris Kane
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:11 am Post subject: It was me! |
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Howdy all,
The little 33 in question was a bog stock 1987 33 1.7, with 300,000 km on it. OK, it was basically new, with konis, new bushings and some stiffer springs, but the engine was standard (bar vernier camwheels) as was the gearbox. We maxed out at 190km/h at one point when I was driving, around a right hand bend. Most interesting!
The car is very chuckable, and a very forgiving handler. It's set up soft, because the Targa is a car killer if the suspension's too hard.
Stuart Chandler owns the car, and I built it for him for last year's Targa, which he drove with Mike Humphrey as co-driver. This year, Stu and I shared the drive 50:50, and we were pretty pleased with the result.
Indeed, it WAS Damon Earwaker - well spotted. Specially imported for the event, and with him was Bryan Keen - our logistics manager.
If you've never done a tarmac rally, you're missing out.
Chris Kane
-77 Alfasud Ti 1.7
-70 1750 GTV |
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Eddie W
Alfa 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 375
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Ben, the boring Porsche Winner was at least driven by expat Kiwi Jimmy Richards. I think last year an Aussie won.
Gritsop. thanks for the tip.I'll keep my eyes open for one when the budget permits.
Cris, more details on the car and the experience would be great. The rubber looks pretty wide andwhat spring rates, pad material etc
Regards Eddie
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:29 am Post subject: Car owner |
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Hi all
Owner of Car 533 here.
Additional car details........
Rear springs are ......wait for it ...Mk 5 Cortina wagon rears !
Brake pads are HAWK (USA) HP Plus compound - they lasted two targas
and 6 rounds of dual car circuit racing / testing @ Manfeild!!
The rubber is standard 185/60/14 but we used Dunlop race tyres D01J's.
Amazing tyres, stiff sidewalls so the car feels very stable which is very confidence inspiring when your trying to corner flat out - one rule Targa cars do have to stick to is that we are limited to 200kph - and time penalties awarded if youre caught !
As for the experience - what can I say - 900km of closed public roads over 6 days some stages 5km long some 50km long - drive as fast and as hard as you dare - but not in excess of 200kph
11,000 photos now viewable @ http://www.groundsky.co.nz/
Stuart Chandler
- 1978 Sud 1.5 Ti - totally original
- 1987 33 1.7 (RALLY car)
- 1990 33 1.7 daily driver (RED)
- 1990 75 Twin Spark daily driver and crew transfer vehicle & tow car
- 1987 75 BTCC Replica (project) |
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