View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Sergio Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 150 Location: Portugal
|
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:32 am Post subject: 33 Performance |
|
|
Hi
Yesterday I drove a Ford Fiesta XR2i 16v (130hp model) and the dealer (a mechanic and race car driver (classic datsun 1200)) says that my 33 16v (non cat and 137hp) has nothing to do with the ford performance wise... He says the ford is a lot faster. I didn't feel that when I drove it and besides it having short gears it didn't seem as beastly as my beloved alfa.
It's about 100kg lighter and has more torque, but doesn't have that alfa reving soul.
Does any body have performance figures (just to feed my curiosity) for both cars, like 0-100Km/h, 0-400 metres, or 0-1000m?
I felt the car had great handling (very solid ride), but the wheels rubbed on the arches because it was running 175/60r14 tyres on the Pegueot 106 rallye rims (white steel) that has an offset of 12-15 mm more than twice suggested for the ford. So that's why offsets matter so much...
All best
Sergio |
|
Back to top |
|
|
james Alfasud
Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 82
|
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was speaking to my brother the other night. He dug out for me a Alfa 33 1987 brochure, so when he send's it down to me i will scan it in and upload it for people to have look at. It should be very instersting read. or unless you know or any one that has them on the net for down load.
For performance figures you could take a look at www.maxpower.co.uk , www.fastcar.co.uk these should have the ford numbers.
Hope this helps.
James _________________ Umm thinking of getting a Alfa 33 P4 16v cloverleaf.
I would have done but i could not see any nice ones, so on the end i went for a 145 QV. Very happy with it
But still looking for a nice cheep 33 cloverleaf. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sergio Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 150 Location: Portugal
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:13 am Post subject: Thanks Admin |
|
|
Thanks Admin for placing this in the right place
I apologise for posting in the wrong place
All the Best
Sérgio |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lee Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 150 Location: Essex UK
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:04 pm Post subject: performance figures |
|
|
Hi, I`ve got a few copies of Performance car magazine from the mid `90s, and they tested the Fiesta you mention.
They got 0-60 mph from rest in 8.3 seconds, but commented "harsh engine, harsh ride.For Fiesta die hards called Kevin" UK people will understand this joke!
The official figure from Alfa for 0-60 in a 33 16v non cat is 8 sec dead, but magazines put anywhere between here and about 8.9 sec, but as the Alfa is so free revving and willing to be red lined it feels all the better.
Buy hey, even if the Alfas a little slower they`re way cooler to own and be seen in.
Lee _________________ `97 155 2.0 16v sport
`91 33 1.7 I.E |
|
Back to top |
|
|
james Alfasud
Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 82
|
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Buy hey, even if the Alfas a little slower they`re way cooler to own and be seen in. |
I have a few friends that have laugh in my face after saying im "going" to get an alfa 33 16V. But i don't think thay will know what there missing, when there driving around in there Corsa's
James _________________ Umm thinking of getting a Alfa 33 P4 16v cloverleaf.
I would have done but i could not see any nice ones, so on the end i went for a 145 QV. Very happy with it
But still looking for a nice cheep 33 cloverleaf. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Charlie Alfasud
Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 25 Location: Portsmouth
|
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
James to be fair i have loads of mates who have their performance versions of said corsa/saxo/fiesta/nova varients. Admittedly i am very partial to these rare breeds of fine automoitve dullness. (or perhaps not)
Come on tell your mates to get a proper car! something akin to the beast which you want to get. I am 19 and have a 33 16v. I get nothing but respect from my cronies. And the main reason is that my beast is pure class. It is quick, Italian, and pulls the birds. I have to also say that on the roasd the 33 16v chews the fiesta up. My mate has the very same xr2 16v(130bhp) model and he cant stick with me for peanuts.
[/quote] _________________ Charlie
Spaghetti and Meatballs
33 16v elegante |
|
Back to top |
|
|
james Alfasud
Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 82
|
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
To right
I can't wait till i get one. i just need to find the cash and the right car _________________ Umm thinking of getting a Alfa 33 P4 16v cloverleaf.
I would have done but i could not see any nice ones, so on the end i went for a 145 QV. Very happy with it
But still looking for a nice cheep 33 cloverleaf. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ChrisC Alfa Sprint
Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 152 Location: Frome
|
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: Kevins |
|
|
Italian stuff way has to count as way better regardless of whether its faster or slower. I made my drive home from uni yesterday in my lancia (as quick as a 33 as far as it goes), and came across a pair of kevins racing (cavalier gsi 2000 and an orion of some sort). Passed them both within a minute of meeting them (on twisty welsh roads). And as for xr2is being faster, thats a pile of crap because they are always weighed down by four fat people in baseball caps, massive subs in the boot, cant handle because the owners have put on far too stiff suspension leaving them bouncing around all over the place and all xr2is have knackered piston rings fitted as standard, so they can leave the blue smoke everywhere. _________________ Alfa Sprint QV - Gone to a better home and in happier health for it
Silver Lancia Beta HPE Volumex - under restoration |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RickD Guest
|
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:23 pm Post subject: 0-60 in 10.5 secs for a 33 Boxer 16V (137 hp) |
|
|
I have a 1991 16v and it says in the book
0-60 : 10.5 secs.
I timed it and I confirm.
This car is not very quick at acceleration, although the engine does have character. The gearbox is too slow and basically unreliable, and torque is probably a little low.
Today, most turbo diesel gets from 0 to 60 in less than a 33 Boxer 16V.
It kills me but it's true. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mixsynth Alfa Sprint
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 165 Location: Peterborough UK
|
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
www.carstats.co.uk says 8.9. Most sites are more generous.
As to your achieved figure of 10.5, you can't compare the official figures to the speeds you or I can achieve, unless you or I were trained racing drivers. Not to mention the fact that most 16v's on the road could probably do with a bit of re-tweaking to get them back to their best. _________________ Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ak Guest
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
I knew someone who had fitted turbo into a 1.7 33 and had messed with the engine, so it was giving about 170 hp..
i do not think any diesel could outdo this.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Matt Stolton Alfa Sprint
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 233 Location: London
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:39 am Post subject: Re: 0-60 in 10.5 secs for a 33 Boxer 16V (137 hp) |
|
|
RickD wrote: |
This car is not very quick at acceleration, although the engine does have character. The gearbox is too slow and basically unreliable, and torque is probably a little low.
|
I must say I always thought the gearboxes were spot on in the 33, although the synchros are made of glass. The way you can pull 6000+ revs (safely close to read line ), change to the next bigger cog, and still keep it on Kam, above 4K revs is good design, and clever choice of ratios. This keeps maximum power down to the wheels, and gives it some long legs for a fair top speed. Anyone can make a vehicle accelerate quickly if the gearbox ratios are really short (a la ford). I once worked on a farm, where where I drove a Massey Ferguson 135 (3 cylinder diesel, 900cc) that was over 30 years old and weighed 3 ton, could easily do 0-20 all the way in top gear, seemingly instantly, whilst towing 10 ton trailers. It couldn't go any faster than 20mph, but it got there instantly.
The 16V are a little torqueless, compared with the 8V and certainly modern diesels, but you shouldn't try to pull away using torque in a 16V, or an 8V. Simply dump down one or two cogs and floor it. The boxer engine is designed for free revving (three bearing crank like bikes use) and power at top end. Modern engines and diesels (sorry gary ) are designed for people who don't enjoy driving, can't be arsed to be involved in the process of driving, or don't understand 'performance' engines/driving.
Only in a well turboed diesel are you able to floor your foot at 1500 rev and accelerate 'efficiently'. Petrol, even with charged inlet systems, require revs to accelerate to their max. If you let any petrol engine, particularly a torqueless one, bog down at 1500 rpm, it will feel slow as you have no gas speed to get any torque or power through the engine to the wheels. Any petrol car, fiat to ferrari, will not accelerate without revs (although the odd V10/12 with 500Ft/lb of torque at 2500 A la Lambo, is an exception) _________________ Regards
Matt
Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gritsop Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 766 Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject: performance |
|
|
Hi all,
I would like to make some comments from my point of view and according to what i have read in this topic of the 33's performance.
I'm an owner of a 1991 33 1.4 IE.
Two days ago I was passenger in a ford focus RS (2000cc, 225 hps) and we drove a distance of 60-70 kms in mountain road - uphill and down hill.
Indeed the car was running fast enough entering the curves without being pulled off its lane, it was uncomparable. BUT what i realised from this small journey is the fact that italian cars have their own "personality".
Of cource focus RS and 33 are completely different but this is not the point .The point is that italian cars have their own distinct character. Ford whatever engine/suspension etc may have still remains a ford. In my country Greece, Ford and Opel are cars that are for girls aged 20-25 and for people being in pension! If you ask a greek person about Italian cars then the asnwer is Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo- AR has acheived in a legend.
So besides some people looking performances etc. always keep in ming that people's eyes always stare in AR's silver heart and not to the ford's or opel's logo.
In addition last sunday at a friends house we were 5 people at my age (25 years old) and we were discussing about cars. Then one of him told me about my alfa: Is it 5-6 years old ? and I told him "no", it is 12 years old; reaction: he was left with his mouth open!
So as a conclusion i will say again that performance is good but good reputation and a cuore sportivo cannot be measured with a ford, opel or peugeot car.
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
Athens - Greece |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Charlie Alfasud
Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 25 Location: Portsmouth
|
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:20 pm Post subject: 10 seconds to sixty in 16v is WRONG |
|
|
I am sorry but i have to disagree with you rick, the 33 16v 0-60 time as quoted by alfa-romeo is 8.1 seconds. Plain as mud. This means the average driver could do this in 8.5 or so if you sidestep the cluth and hold on. I feel you may be refering to the figures for the 1.7 ie although alfa even quote 9 or more seconds or so. So i think your figures are wrong. If they arent then citroens figures are way out for their saxo Vtr and Vts models because i have no problems beating Vtrs from the line. Sorry bu i think you are wrong.
Enjoy your alfas though _________________ Charlie
Spaghetti and Meatballs
33 16v elegante |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|