Alfa Pages

[joninaustralia]

Hi there,

I have heard for years that the series 3 Permanent 4 33 was the one to go for - the holy grail of Alfa 33's. Only problem is nobody seems to know why. They are slower than regular series 3 1.7 16v, and use more fuel. Plus if the 4X4 goes wrong you need an old school Alfa specialist (not the dealers!) who knows the car very well. Not a good start! Whats more the old Italian guy at my specialist Italian workshop in Melbourne just laughed when I asked him if P4's drove much better!

So, is the attraction that they are rare and therefore more desirable, or is there much better handlingn and therefore driving experience in a P4?

[paulhide]

In the original reviews the P4 was actually quicker 0-60mph even though it was/is heavier. As road conditions worsen this becomes even more apparent. Driving in the wet in a P4 or on gravel there is so much more grip for acceleration, though a bit more lateral weight. If you've made engine mods for more power you'll be able to get the power down more easily without wheelspin. However the P4 eats clutches and the rear wheels don't like going round full lock corners in the dry as there is no differential between the two rear wheels and one rear wheel will want to go faster/turn more than the other and there is a slight juddering to the drive train so when parking it is useful to have a switch which can switch off the 4WD. (though only switch on/off when stationary).
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Owner's Club 33 Registrar. Now from P4 & S2 1.7 QV
http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5188

[Matt Stolton]

I don't get why all you P4 boys reckon you get vibration going around slow bends and the like. All you need to do is replace the bushes which hold the Viscous coupling to the body, and reinforce the points where the viscous mounts to the body......

I played with mine, which did have the most horendous vibration around slow corners, and completley eliminated them. Where the viscous bolts to the chassis, it can tend to pull the fixings out, and rip the chassis. By fitting spreader pates and large washers under the carpet inside the car, and bolting through to these, the viscous mounting will not pull out of the car. Then sort out new rubber mounts on the viscous, and all your vibrations are gone. Get them whilst Alfa still have them in stock!!!

Getting back on thread, a good P4 will dog over any 2WD 33. What it suffers in extra bulk, is lost for the extra grip that 4WD gives. Even with my 'silly' engine, I could barely wheel spin in the dry, and the wet was minimal, even with 195/45 R15 Yoko A539s on.

It does have a rear diff between rear wheels, it is missing a third diff, which is what the viscous coupling is for. Most true 4WD have a diff out of the gear box, which then feeds front and rear diffs, allowing for slip between front and rear axle speeds.

The P4 has the front diff, in the gear box as any normal 33. The same shaft that powers that diff, extends backwards into the Electromagnetic coupling (basically an electric dog clutch) and then into the viscous coupling. The viscous is the devise that allows the front wheels to spin, and divert power/torque to the rear axle. It claims normally (None wheel spin condition) to transmit only 5% power to the rear, with the rest going to FWD. As front wheels loose traction, power is diverted to the rear wheels, to a theoretical 60:40 split. However in use, mine certainly felt like a traditional 3 diff setup, so don't worry too much about how it works, just know it does.

Repairs wise, the only thing to go wrong, other than wiring as normal on any 33, is the Electromagnetic coupling. However, I succesfully stripped 2, replaced the gearbox oil seals and reassembled them, and they start to work again!!! I presume they run out of grease around the driven plate/piston, so by repacking with grease, it allows the driven cog to slide piston styli to mate with the magnetised cog. Whatever, it ain't tricky, and the seals are all still available.
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Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!