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Rich B
Alfa 33
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Southampton
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: 8v to 16v conversion - worth it? |
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An old argument I know and probably one that will never be resolved but I wondered what the current thoughts were.
I have a 1.7IE and want a bit more poke (as we all do) and wondered if going down the route of cams/programmable ecu/throttle bodies from AH motorsports or a 16v motor - what do you think?
What would a need for a 16v conversion? Gearbox is the same and all brakes etc are already uprated. |
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Edward
Alfa 33
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
It is fairly easy to do the 16v conversion - just get an old 16v car strip out the engine and crossmember and swap it into your 8 valve. As the 16v comes out watch how this is done and re insert it in your 8 valve. There are some differences - cross member, exhaust, fuel pump when fitting one to a series two car, keep the ecu etc and simply move it all across. Start with taking the 16v out first - lay all the parts out and then pull the 8 valve out and swap them over.
Let me know if you want full details - its a little difficult to type the whole procedure here. A cheap way of gaining about 30 hp.
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The faster the better. |
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Mixsynth
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Peterborough UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: |
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It's well worth it (not that I'm biased).
Check out the 16V conversion info link in my signature.
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Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations |
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johnboy
16 Valve
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1061
Location: margate U.K
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: 8v to 16v conversion - worth it? |
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Hi Rich
Im with Hugh, its a must.your life depends on it!! its not that hard to do at all.just time. if you want to have a chat about it.leave a private message with your number ok
regards john
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WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
Alfa gt jtdm blackline
1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
2002 ts gtv the wifes now
1997 seadoo gsx 800
1999 freestyle superjet |
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Rich B
Alfa 33
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Southampton
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Right then, it sounds like its the thing to do.
I'm not gonna do it immediately but I'll definitely do in the near future.
Do I need the wiring loom and how do I go about fitting this?
I need to have a cat, will I need an engine from a cat car or can I wire in the lamda sensor into the new loom?
I presume I'll also need the ecu too. Hopefully everything else will be ok - I've put on vented front discs, done a rear disc conversion and got all the 16v side skirts and a P4 recaro interior/steering wheel/gearknob. Is the fuel pump/radiator the same? What about the strengthening braces in the engine bay?
Anyone know of a good place to get an engine from and an idea of the cost?
Thanks for your help,
Rich |
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Mixsynth
Alfa Sprint
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Peterborough UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Rich B wrote: |
Right then, it sounds like its the thing to do.
I'm not gonna do it immediately but I'll definitely do in the near future.
Do I need the wiring loom and how do I go about fitting this? |
I don't know anything about the 1.7IE wiring loom, having converted from a Series 2 with carbs. Somebody else here will chirp in, I'm sure.  You shouldn't find it that difficult ripping it out and using the 16V one though - you already have a hole in the firewall etc.
| Rich B wrote: |
| I need to have a cat, will I need an engine from a cat car or can I wire in the lamda sensor into the new loom? |
If your car was registered before 1st August 1992 you don't need one. My donor 16v'er was a '91 model so didn't have a lambda sensor. I believe the ECU from those earlier models is programmed not to require lambda sensor input, even though there might be pins for it, in which case you'd need to find ECU/loom from a catted car, or a replacement chip from one.
I could be wrong on this - wait for Keith or somebody with knowledge to answer 
| Rich B wrote: |
| I presume I'll also need the ecu too. Hopefully everything else will be ok - I've put on vented front discs, done a rear disc conversion and got all the 16v side skirts and a P4 recaro interior/steering wheel/gearknob. Is the fuel pump/radiator the same? What about the strengthening braces in the engine bay? |
The brakes sound sorted - I never did a rear disc conversion and it wasn't a serious problem (but the brakes were pretty sh1t). You won't have a problem with the existing radiator either - see my conversion page for pictures of the teeny S2 radiator I kept in and you'll see what little cooling the engine needs! In fact it ran under temperature most of the time. Fuel pump, I suppose being EFI the 8V one should be plenty. I didn't bother with the strengthening braces in the engine bay either, but if you really want to rag it, transplanting them might be a wise idea.
| Rich B wrote: |
| Anyone know of a good place to get an engine from and an idea of the cost? |
I paid £280 for a rusty P4 in 2002, purely because the engine was so sound and I could witness it was running well, unlike a truly dead car that wouldn't go. By today's standards (only 3 years on) that's DEAR and you should be able to get a donor car much cheaper. Back in 2002 I couldn't find anybody selling 16V engines on their own for less than £500, most of them being reconditioned (I didn't care about that). I got the whole car for half that, which meant I had the full recaro interior and every other part useful for spares. The only problem was getting rid of it - we had to attack the stripped-down chassis with a pneumatic cutter until it was in small enough chunks to be carted to the dump.
If you find a 16v engine on its own, make sure you get all the necessary extras (CROSSMEMBER). Get a copy of the Workshop manual CD too from Keith - trust me, it'll save you time!
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Hugh B
'98 145 QV
'89 33 1.7 16V Veloce SportWagon (in hibernation)
16V conversion pics/videos - now updated with extra pictures and explanations |
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Edward
Alfa 33
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Rich,
Sounds interesting and I may well have most of the parts you need this weekend as I am getting a 16v car that may be broken. You can come an listed to the engine as well as drive the car.
Could you explain more about the rear disc conversion - which calipers you used - how you mounted the discs and handbrake etc. Did you machine the hubs to fit parts ????
Any information would be good.
Edward.
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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thanks for the advice everyone.
Edward, how old is the car you are breaking? How many miles has it done? Why are you breaking it - I hate to hear of cars being broken, I think its a shame. Whereabouts in Bristol are you?
I need to do some research into how to make an older engine run with a cat, I'm pretty sure it will be possible to use a wiring loom from a newer car. I think technically you can run a later car with no cat if you can prove that the engine is from a pre-cat era (it will be hard to prove it to the MOT tester though).
I'll post a new topic on rear disc conversions as it seems to have generated a couple of enquiries and others outside of this topic might want to know about it. |
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Rich B
Alfa 33
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 386
Location: Southampton
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sorry forgot to log in, last post was me! |
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