Alfa Pages

[Paullewis]

Hi to everyone who replied to my last post about my recent P4 prang. Thankyou for all your condolences and advice and I am feeling much better now. As for the car, well the whole thing has already gone to insurance so I'm just waiting for the b******s to cough up some cash. I'm hoping (probably naively) that they'll give me a fair amount for what was a mint P4..but I won't hold my breath!!

I have had several dealings with UK insurance companies before and I don't think much of them..they're a necessary evil I suppose..just another way to fleece the heavily penalised UK motorist! Anyway that's enough of my rant...I am now mobile again thanks to my girlfriend who has kindly let meboorow her R reg 1.4 VW Polo..a bit different to the P4 as you can imagine!!

I am hoping to get a new Alfa soon, but I'm not sure which model. I will probably go for a late model 33 16V..maybe a 145/146 boxer engined model or even a 155 twin spark. I've driven several 155's and quite like them but I have heard bad things about twinspark engine reliability. What do you think??

I've never driven a boxer engined 145/146, what are they like compared to 33's?? I've driven a 145 Cloverleaf and that was a rocket..but I don't think I can stretch to buying a decent one.

I have thought about getting another P4 as they are such a great drive..but they are probably the most costly of the 33's to keep running in tip top order. My white one was in mint condition when I bought it yet it needed a lot of mechanical work to fully sort it. I know that buying any old Alfa can mean alot of instant costs but my previous Alfa was a 33 8 valve Turismo (L reg) and it required hardly any work in 30,000 miles of motoring.
This car was fitted with a CAT which seemed to strangle the boxer engine and mute the exhaust note. If I bought a late model 16V, would it have similar problems??

So what should I go for? Another P4, a late 16V a 145/146boxer or a 155 TS??

p.s. I'm still thinking it over about buying my white P4 wreckage off the insurance company. Would anyone want any bits? I:e;- Mint recaros and interior, virtually new rear calipers, Red Dot vented front discs, excellent alloys, decent gearbox & engine plus loads of other great bits.

cheers Paul.

[bw]

Paul,

Firstly, try the online valuation form at http://www.parkers.co.uk/autotrad/index.asp for the insurance - it quotes £1365 as the value for a mint '91 P4, so it could be a useful 3rd party haggling tool

Regarding your question about 155 twinsparks I can offer some general comments as I have one myself. Firstly, they are VERY cheap these days and you can get a really smart P or R plate one for about £2k if you look around.

Derivative points to bear in mind...

Earlier cars (pre '95 ish, but it's not a precise science!) have 8 valve engines with a timing chain and they are considered to be more bullet proof than the later 16v. They are apparently torque-ier at lower revs, but lose out at the top end over the 16v.

Around 1995 saw the release of the so-called "widebody" version which has flared wheel arches and a wider front track - they handle better, look better and are generally improved - they can be identified by the smooth wheel arch over the back wheels - earlier skinny-body cars have a lip over the rear arch.

The Super (2.0) (1996-1997) has a grey velour interior, wooden steering wheel rim, slightly raised suspension and deeper section tyres. Mine is a Super and I'm planning to get it lowered which is what most people do - Eibach springs are good.

Look out for the sport pack ones which are more desirable - they can be distinguished usually by the black Speedline alloys and lower suspension, but there are some around that were retro-fitted with the sport pack. It's now very expensive to do this because the proper alloys are like rocking horse doo doo (unless you want white!)

Reliability/maintenance points...

Timing belt - crucial The replacement interval is 72k miles but this is waaaaay off, you need to think in terms of 30k or even less if it's short journeys. You would need to make sure it had been done very recently, or do it as soon as you buy it if not. If it's still on the original belt this is especially important because the tensioner wheel is design flawed and has now been replaced by Alfa with an improved design.
2 litre engines are smoother than the 1.8's because they have counter rotating balancer shafts...a mixed blessing because these are belt driven inside the timing case, so that belt plus tensioner also needs replacing on the 2.0 cars when the cam belt is done - if the balancer shaft belt goes it won't necessarily do damage, but there's a high risk fouling the cam belt as they are right next to each other.
The 2.0 engines especially are very smooth and have amazing throttle response and are very revvy, and as long as you look after it they are reliable. Crankshaft failure is very rare but not unheard of so I guess the lower the mileage the better.

Wishbone bushes - these wear out and cause the suspension to knock and the handling suffers, especially under braking. You have to replace the whole wishbone as they are not available seperately so it can get costly.

Variator - tied in with the cam belt stuff is the cam variator which is responsible for the variable valve timing and it advances the timing above about 2500-3000 rpm. These devices are fairly notorious for wearing out and make the engine sound like a diesel from a cold start-up. It won't do any damage, but it requires the belts to come off to be replaced, so get it done along with the belts even if it seems ok as it will save hassle later probably.

Niggly problems - the windscreen wipers will almost certainly judder and will also probably foul the corner of the bonnet and damage the paintwork. The rev counter may work intermittently. The oil level sensor that controls the light on the 'check panel' near the stereo will probably break and the light will come on - there are other sensors for oil level so it's no more than annoying, I haven't had the sensor replaced on mine yet. The rubber gaiter for the wires than go into the boot lid disintegrates sometimes. Lambda sensors tend to wear out quickly.

Hope this hasn't put you off! Most cars (especially Alfa's) have certain points you need to watch for I suppose, so it's no different to that. The key thing is timing belt and tensioners - if you find a tidy P or R-plate that's had the belts etc done and the wishbone bushes are ok then the 155 is a real bargain IMHO.

[Adam H]

Hi - please give me a call or send me an email about your engine - 0774 777 5909 or turbo_bitz@hotmail.com

Adam H

[Admin]

Hi

I could well be interested in the engine as well.

As to a 145, my stepmother had a 1.7 16V one. Twas a bit gutless unless you revved the nuts off it.

All the Tipo based cars suffer the problems with the front wishbones, including the 156.

The cam belts don't last for ever, but it is the tensioners that go. My stepmothers GTV belt was changed at 72000, and was the original belt on the early type tensioner. She was lucky. Normal change interval seems to be around 50~60000, with the tensioners done at the same time.

All the best

Keith

[Matt Stolton]

Boxer 145/146s are just too heavy for the boxer engine. The boxer was revised to give more torque, at the sacrifice of a little HP, but it is still a heavy car. You need to go for the 2.0 GCL.....

However, I have a big problem with the 2.0 TS engines. They are a good engine, unfourtunatley the people that own them don't look after them. Few owners check the oil, which in this particular engine is extra critical. The con-rods have a lot of play at the big end. The rod is kept square to the crank mostly by the piston end! This is assisted by having oil on the crank, which helps keep the bottom square. Low oil for sustained periods, means the rod goes out of square to the crank and the cranks/big end bearings wear big time. Even if a car has a AFSH, it is not enough as it needs oil inbetween service intervals, but not enough owners check oil levels, leading to scored crank syndrom. Basically if it has been driven how it is supposed to, it will use oil (normal on any revvy car) but a lack of topping up is very destructive for the 2.0 TS.

There is an answer....V6. Keeps the P4 PERFORMANCE, without the wobbly crank problem. Apart from the odd wet liner coming loose at the bottom and mixing a little oil with water (look for the old mayonaise in the filler cap, and oil in the coolant tank) they are pretty reliable. Also loads of extra torque to lug the heavy body about, but still very wanting to rev. If you like the shape of the 164, the 3.0 (24V or 12V) cloverleafs are superb. The only none obvious things to check are all the interior electricals, electric seats, air con and all the other gadgets. Look for the leather electric seats and you could be caneing around in absolute luxury!!

Any way have fun finding a good one.
_________________
Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

[bw]

I think Matt is right - the twinsparks definitely need looking after, but they are great engines though. The V6 is possibly more reliable, but servicing will cost more because of more expensive parts and less space to work. Also, the V6 is a less well balanced car with more weight at the front, so the handling suffers. A twinspark will beat a V6 through the twisties every time as it's more nimble. Horses for courses I suppose, depends what you want from the car.

Of course, being a 155 owner, I also think they look better than the 145.

[Admin]

Hi

Yes the oil level is a problem. Part of the problem is that they have quite a small oil capacity, and a long oil change interval. As they age they start to burn a tad more oil resulting in blown cranks. My local Alfa specialist gets quite alot in around 80000 miles where the owners haven't checked the oil.

The 164 is a nice enough car but for me it is too big. Just not comfy in such a large car.

All the best

Keith

[BILL]

HI,
in the 33 how often should the wishbones be changed?Becoase ive allready 190000Km on the clock and ive changed only a right balljoint(it conects the steear to the shockabsorber )but the sound didnot stoped more than two days.Its sounds from the right wheel when the car moves and i turn the stearing wheel to the left on bumpy roads at low speed.

[Gary UK]

Sounds like your front bearing is shot

[nickus?]

Hi,let us know if you want to sell the rear calipers.also front discs maybe,ta!
nick@baydrift.com

[Dreamracers]

I feel like a vulture, but hey, here goes - recaros still up for grabs?

dreamracers@ntlworld.com