| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
 |
|
In case any of you were thinking of trying replacing the dash lights with 12v green LED's from maplins, I tried but they weren't bright enough, so I'll order the proper ones later.
There are 14 clear bulbs in total +1 for ABS if you have it, with coloured plastic.
5 red (oil, bat, brakes, hand brake, temp)
1 green light (indicators)
1 green dark (lights)
1 yellow / orange (low petrol)
5 white (dials)
1 blue (full beam)
I cant decide if i should remove the blue filters (so the dials look green) and put in multi coloured changing bulbs.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbber
P4
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2162
Location: The Greatest Town on Earth - Swadlincote, UK
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
These are VERY interesting Al... unlike bulbs, they last forever(?)...
I'd be interested to know what your experiences are with them. In the past people have used them, but they needed resistors wired in series, and a solution was needed for the mounts etc... But they seem to have thought these through, as they have the original bulb profiles.
Also - people in the past have reported LEDs to be too directional... so I'd like your comments on this aspect of these new "wide angle" LEDs.
Just don't forget... unlike bulbs THEY HAVE A SPECIFIC POLARITY!
Thanks!
Bob
_________________
Fiat Bravo 165 Sport |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thanks bobber, i was begining to think no one was intersted and i was talking to my wall  might take a while to get them all the correct way round, should be here thursday as i missed todays delivery. Dash goes on, dash goes out, dash goes on, dash goes out. Howmany times have i had my dash out now? I will have to do it all again when my dials arrive 
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice pic bobbber, you look like your from Brighton
Got the LED's today, the right one is the free gift for side lights (they give a blue tint)
As you can see the led is much taller and a little wider than the bulb, so fitting them was really tight and on the clock led, I had to sand down the top of the led to get it to fit. The dash looks a little blue, but it’s light outside, so I’ll have to check at night, but the warning lights look brighter.
I couldn’t see or figure out how to replace the heater console bulb, anyone got a pic on how to do it?
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
not very good pictures but.....It looks blue, so i will try and remove the blue buld covers or replace them with green.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
A couple of things, after starting the engine the brake warning light flickers on along with the temp warning light. This brake warning light was flickering before but now the temp warning does as well. Also the bat light doesnt go off until 2.5k rpm is reached, could this be due to a lower resistance of all combined lights in the circuit? Or just the bat warning light? Or something else. I've not got round to testing this theory by replacing a standard buld in the bat warning light.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
The battery light not going off is probably a problem with your alternator or its regulator thingy. Mine only takes 1500rpm to turn it off. 
I have a voltage gauge so I know when the alternator is working - you could use a multimeter to tell you whether your battery light was telling you lies.
_________________
"Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alex_Alfa33
Alfasud
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Essex, Nr Chelmsford
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i got mine from ebay.
i got 2 colour changing leds for my fuel gauge n temp gauge, 2 blue leds n 2 green leds for about £5. they look really good, i got a picture somewhere, ill post it up when i find it.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mine too before i changed the bulbs for leds, but if yours works ok then it must be my alternator or its regulator thingy, ill check the wiring first.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I must admit that when I drove around for a few days with no instrument cluster (it was being fixed, the speedo was broken), I noticed on my voltage gauge that the alternator often wasn't working.
I don't know how or why the alternator/regulator should be affected by the instrument cluster, but with Italian electrics who really knows whether there's a connection!
_________________
"Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
hi,
the current flowing through the "battery" light bulb in the dash goes to the alternator (through the small wire at the back of the alternator)
if too small a current or no current flows through the bulb the alternator won't start working, unless you hit around 3500 rpm.
so if you replace the bulb with a LED (low current) you might not have sufficient current to set the alternator working.
besides, LEDs are primarily diodes, that is current cannot flow both directions in the diode, but only one direction. This has two drawbacks :
- if you have wrong polarity when installing the diode in the dash, no current at all is allowed to flow and start the alternator.
- if correct polarity is assumed, the diode will only light in case of undervoltage malfunction, whereas a bulb would have lit in case of overvoltage also.
regards,
zp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
thank you ZeNiTh-PbArM "ZP"
i will replace that led with a bulb, would
| Quote: |
| the brake warning light flickers on along with the temp warning light. This brake warning light was flickering before but now the temp warning does as well. |
be caused by this effect aswel? Should there be any other bulbs that shouldnt be replaced with led's, or cause problems?
How goes your engine diagnostic display thing?
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
light bulbs have an inherent voltage damping function due to the thermal inertia of the filament and to its temperature coefficient of resistance also.
LEDs respond to current variations very quickly, which might cause the flicker you're experiencing.
A possible workaround would be to install an electrolityc capacitor of comfortable capacity between supply wires to the dashboard.
It is also possible to convert the battery light to LED display but it involves adding a little circuitry.
the engine monitor for motronic is under test but i'm experiencing trouble, mostly because the bosch ecu sometimes gets the hiccups and resets communication  so much for german reputation of superior design!!!
regards,
zp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
the current flowing through the "battery" light bulb in the dash goes to the alternator (through the small wire at the back of the alternator)
if too small a current or no current flows through the bulb the alternator won't start working, unless you hit around 3500 rpm.
so if you replace the bulb with a LED (low current) you might not have sufficient current to set the alternator working. |
That explains perfectly the behaviour I saw in my car.
But why? Why design it so that if the indicator lamp for alternator failure blows, the alternator won't run? This design creates just the situation the lamp was there to alert you of, but it creates it only whenever the lamp is unable to warn you of the problem!!! 
_________________
"Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ZeNiTh-PbArM thanks for explaining things, I replaced the bat led with a bulb and it now goes out at around 1.5 - 2k, also the low fuel and temp light slightly glow when revving before the lights are turned on, after which they don’t, the flickering also stopping after lights have been stitched on and off. Could you elaborate a little on
| Quote: |
| A possible workaround would be to install an electrolytic capacitor of comfortable capacity between supply wires to the dashboard. It is also possible to convert the battery light to LED display but it involves adding a little circuitry. |
or is it not worth it?
Ben_nz, could it be the same as the bulb for the 4x4 system, as in if the 4x4 system doesn’t work, the bulb lights and if the 4x4 bulb blows the 4x4 system also stops working. I would think this is a design feature due to not being able to be warned if the warning light isn’t working??? ZeNiTh-PbArM your comments are welcome.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
| Quote: |
| Why design it so that if the indicator lamp for alternator failure blows, the alternator won't run? This design creates just the situation the lamp was there to alert you of, but it creates it only whenever the lamp is unable to warn you of the problem!!! |
when you turn ignition on, if bulb is blown, it won't come on and you'll notice it. once you start the engine, the alternator doesnt work, but the first time you reach ~3500rpm, the alternator auto-starts and stays active even when rpm drop to idle. So a blown bulb won't leave you stranded...that is, if you don't drive below 3000rpm all the time 
| Quote: |
| the low fuel and temp light slightly glow when revving before the lights are turned on, after which they don’t, the flickering also stopping after lights have been stitched on and off |
here i would suggest a faulty ground connexion somewhere. some other tricks might cause such symptoms but analysis of inner dash wiring would be required to get accurate answers
| Quote: |
Could you elaborate a little on :
A possible workaround would be to install an electrolytic capacitor of comfortable capacity between supply wires to the dashboard |
yep, that is a reasonable capacitor, something like 2200µF 35V 85°C will do the job. Connect it between dash supply and ground, near the dash. You will need some soldering skills to achieve this. It might improve your flicker.
| Quote: |
| Ben_nz, could it be the same as the bulb for the 4x4 system, as in if the 4x4 system doesn’t work, the bulb lights and if the 4x4 bulb blows the 4x4 system also stops working. I would think this is a design feature due to not being able to be warned if the warning light isn’t working??? |
if i remember well there are two bulbs in the dash for the P4 system, for redundancy purposes.
regards,
zp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks ZeNiTh-PbArM
I will remove my dash again and post a pic with the - terminals marked for the leds, making it easier for anyone else planning to replace bulbs for leds, perhaps you could suggest a place to position the cap.
I am now experiencing starting problems since replacing bulbs for leds but might be a coincidence what do you think.
Normally my car starts on the first key turn on the 4th or 5th crank, I depress the clutch and don’t touch the accelerator, now it cranks and either starts, idles and then stalls sometimes, or fails to start unless the accelerator is applied.
Air leak or electrics??? It has started to get cold in the mornings, i have cleaned and tightened the loom contacts on the coil and have a spare coil to try as mine leaks through the plastic insulating top when its wet or cold.
_________________
x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ben_nz
Gold Cloverleaf
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Ben_nz, could it be the same as the bulb for the 4x4 system .... if the 4x4 bulb blows the 4x4 system also stops working. |
Hey, anyone got a 33 with ABS?
_________________
"Now, all that is left to do ... is wait that something else brokens, to fix up again!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Admin
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 1223
Location: Stafford, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ben_nz wrote: |
| Hey, anyone got a 33 with ABS? |
LHD markets only I think
All the best
Keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigAl
P4
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 2990
Location: U.K Surrey
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Alfa 33
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 388
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
hi,
you mean, start charging the battery without having to rev the engine once to 1500 - 2000 rpm ?
yes there is
1st solution : overhaul alternator to its original condition (brushes) and restore wiring loom from battery to alternator, from battery to ground, from dash to alternator. On a mint condition 33, the battery light goes off immediately after starting the engine. One likely culprit is the big red wire from battery to starter and then alternator ; corrosion, hence contact resistance develops over time. Renewing this particular wiring loop solves most of these problems.
2nd solution : replace alternator with a 145/146 unit as voltage regulation kicks in quicker. drawback : it's not a straight fit, you need to mix bracket and pulleys to install it
regards,
zp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gritsop
Green Cloverleaf
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 766
Location: Ekali, Athens - Greece
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Zenith,
Isnt a feature of the Bosch alternators to kick in at 1500 rpm ? The workshop manual indicates that the Bosch unit starts output at 1500 rpm whereas the Marelli/Ducellier units give output right away at 1000 rpm
Regards
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive
http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eagle3
Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah both my 33s need to be blipped to about 2000rpm to get the charging going. I thought it was normal. Bosch alternators on both.
_________________
Alfa33 QO 1984
Alfa33 1.3i.e. 1994 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
