Alfa Pages

[Bobkelso]

..reading on the web it seams that ballasted coils tend to be
have more ohm on the primary in general, for ex. 1,5-3 ohms,
and not ballasted less, for ex. 0.6-1,5 ohms..

But final specification depends strictly on car model,
I'm learning that:

- primary resistance needed depends on the
particular electronic module (as on 33 i.e/carbs),
or points (on very old cars), or e.c.u. (as on 33 16v
or modern cars), that feed the electrical signal to
the primary coil, the impedances must match
or you get small spark or coil burned by heat
or sometimes the electronic module damaged

- secondary resistance depend on primary resistance
and other part of the high tension circuit;
more, the important data on coil to get strong sparks
is L (inductance) and not R, in particular the ratio
L secondary / L primary,
that is not declared from coil manufacturers

- coils with similar specifications could be different in some
important details (for ex. some have a part of the coil
in iron to get higher resistance when hot and not get burned),
so for 100% compatibility is better remain to the original equipment
(may be others spares are ok but you cannot know for sure)

- testing resistance on old coil without high tension applied
could reveal but also not reveal some damages/inner short-cuts
in the coil that can play in real use..

Ps.: founded one of us who got similar doubts but with the
bosh 0 221 122 344 coil that is specific for ecu of alfa 33 16v :

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/167748-coil-values.html
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

[Brit01]

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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Bobkelso]

They have write your nick-name on the coil
with a little error but you can excuse them for that,
probably a English to Brazilian to German
translation misunderstanding

Don't know you but when I get some new spares
(I do it sometimes, not very often, twice a year)
I'm a little gratified..like children with gifts
or women with shopping..
and very pleased to mount it in the car and test..
Not exactly the same sensation with recent cars
(I have taken one little and used but modern
recently to get A/C in the summer and easy to
drive for my woman), in the case of the modern
car a new spare fitted must just work fine..
Probably old cars are a little addictive..
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

jajaja yes BTR01. almost.

I always compare my car spare parts I buy to my wife's shoes and coats she spends a fortune on every year! Same enjoyment yes.
I can say her boots won't last 20+ years like this coil.

But they never understand my friend.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Just removed the old one.

Ballasted! has 2 numbers on the bottom.

0 221 600 002
1 227 020 010

Well it measures 1.5 ohms on the primary same as new.
BUT when I installed the new one and turned the key wow what a difference.
It started up so easily:)
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[BigAl]

sweet, you 2 crack me up
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x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203

[Brit01]

My mistake guys.

What I thought was a resistor with the coil was just a plastic cover once I removed it!

So it was non-ballasted.

[Bobkelso]

"I can say her boots won't last 20+ years like this coil. "

..I'll re-use this sentence

"sweet, you 2 crack me up"

..big brother g@@gle did it for us,
no one is no more safe..

"It started up so easily:)"

This is very interesting,
as my car actually starts with
some time hesitation and
plugs, cables and dizzy
are already been changed..
I too I'll go for a new coil..

Ps.: did you try also the secondary coil
resistance on old coil to see if there was some
evidence of damages? (R old < R=8.91K new coil)
_________________
Alfa 33

[Brit01]

Secondary on old coil = 6.55K

What can we conclude from this?

[Bobkelso]

uhm..Sherlock..sort of a scientific result..
Reading values on internet,
for a coil with R1=1,5 (on primary),
R2=6,55 (on secondary)
seems quite a low ratio R2/R1
(so probably also L2/L1
and Voltage2 / Voltage1)

May be 6.55 is not its original value
and some wires of the secondary are
in short-cut, insulation been damages
by vibrations/heat of the wires
due to 20 years of elm pulses..
and surely new coil is stronger.
I'm happy probably I also have learn
something from your post

Does it helped also with 2000 rpm hesitation?
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

[Brit01]

55 idle jets in today. Small improvement there.
I think the timing is too retarded. I will check it out tomorrow and adance it a little.

Changed oil to Castrol TWS 10w/60. Thin oil start up for cold winter mornings.
Old Motul was way too thick start up for winter. It was struggling to warm up when we had cold nights.

My new trumpets look the business - but no filters yet so old airbox back on.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

55 idle jets in today. Small improvement there.
I think the timing is too retarded. I will check it out tomorrow and adance it a little.

Changed oil to Castrol TWS 10w/60. Thin oil start up for cold winter mornings.
Old Motul was way too thick start up for winter. It was struggling to warm up when we had cold nights.

My new trumpets look the business - but no filters yet so old airbox back on.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

bobkelso:

These MSD ignition modules look interesting.
6A and 6AL.

Multiple long duration spark lasting 20 degrees of the crank rotation. 135mj.
45K volts.

Someone on the GC forum just installed it on his fiat 131 and said it runs like it was on fuel injection. Starts up cold like it was hot.
No hesitations or progression issues.

If that is true then 300 USD doesn't sound too much.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Bobkelso]

..ops..double post..
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Alfa 33

[Bobkelso]

Hi,
very nice components, with modern functionality
that didn't exist 20 years ago, interesting
Still I don't know if they worth the cost on a street car.
I though that if ignition/sparks and carburation are already
normally efficiently in a street motor that stay in the max
6000 rpm range, you cannot gain more power with exotic
racing ignition components..because for example you already
have on a carb car at least 97% of correct fires on the rpm usage
range, and so already very few misfires; euro 2-3-4 cars
do also better to avoid bad emission gas at the exaust,
maybe more than 99% of correct fires??)

The 20 degrees spark lasting thing seem interesting mainly
at very high rpm (to avoid more misfires with normal systems),
and may be at very low rpm (start up, when gasoline
and air mixture can be imperfect, and more if compression
is a bit low).

But if carburation/mixture is not perfect at some rpm,
and if the hesitation means "lot of misfires",
(I'm not sure, may be hesitation could be due
to correct fire but with to low gasoline so low torque at that rpm)
so the 20 degree spark thing instead could be usefull
to fix misfires, as for the experience reported by the fiat 131 user..

Ps.: for your 2000 rpm hesitation:
Seem to be a good idea work on the idle (minimum) jects;
I remember you already try to tune the mixture screws,
it is necessary retune them after new idlee jects in?
I don't remember: there are also not medium rpm jects?

Just thinking about..what about to build a graduated aluminium
plate and fix it to the dizzy, and try an "old stye" racing
precise calibration (one grade at time) of the advance?
And also verify that the pneumatique advance
is really working as manual says?
I also have see in the forums some carb 33 with
added a lambda sensor with an electronic gauge
added to the inner instrumentation, to monitor
directly the air/gasoline mixture.
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

Quite the opposite bob.

This system is most effective up to 3000 rpm. After this it really reduces to 1 spark (but more powerful and longer duration than your normal coil can provide).
Not looking for extra HP.

They provide a smoother and more efficient burn. Cold starts will be less of a problem and less hesitations.

Less fouling of plugs and cleaner exhaust as more fuel is burnt.

My idle mixture screws only really play a part in idling.

I have a lambda/gauge fitted but it's out of action now due to a couple of small holes further down the exhaust manifold. get odd readings as air is coming in from these holes I believe.

I see Summit , Mallory and MSD boxes. Mallory seem to have good reviews.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Bobkelso]

Ok.. I understand..who tried it reported it really works,
and in the medium rpm (but may be we are talking of motor
that stay under 6000 rpm; read somewhere very high rpm
was the most problematic situation for ignition system, it is
difficult to get enough energy for every spark in short times
and "doped" racing components should be used to avoid misfires..

I though that if a combustion can be started (avoiding total misfire)
its quality cannot be improved by stronger or repeated spark,
..may be if you have two different sparkplugs in different places,
Alfa try this for some years on Twin spark series..
so I though that only the simply count of fires/misfires was important,
but probably I'm wrong..or carb cars do a lot of misfires at some
rpm and we didn't suspect that..I should read more about.

About fuel injection versus carbs:
I drove both 1.3 vl twin carbs and Imola 1.3 i.e
(the most effective 33 i.e., because is without the restrictive
Bosch Volume Air Meter that is present in 1.5i.e and 1.7i.e);
the carb one is better and faster from 4000 to high rpm,
(may be bigger air intakes and no catalytic converter
make it "breath" better) but the Imola was more
impressive in torque at low rpm accelerating in high gears.
In that specific case the differences at low rpm I think
where not related to their also different ignition systems
(dizzy+bosh module versus "lost spark" stronger
system Marelli Iaw), but to the fact that air/gasoline
mixture was regulated better at low rpm by the Iaw.

"get odd readings as air is coming in from these holes I believe"
Nice, you can use it for weather forecast
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Alfa 33

[Brit01]

Looking at the Mallory, specs look good.
Takes less power per 1000 rpm (0.6amps) but gives out the same power.
wider operating voltage range also.


Brand Mallory Ignition
Manufacturer's Part Number 6853M
Part Type Ignition Boxes
Product Line Mallory HyFire VI-AL Digital CD Ignitions
Summit Racing Part Number MAA-6853M
UPC 769105119276

Ignition Box Output Capacitive discharge
Circuitry Digital
Rev Limiter Yes
Timing Retard None
Data Acquisition No
CD Voltage Output to Coil 520 V
Current Draw 0.6 amps per 1,000 rpm
Spark Output (millijoules) 135 Millijoules
Minimum Operating Voltage 8 V
Maximum Operating Voltage 16 V
Length (in) 8.000 in.
Height (in) 2.750 in.
Width (in) 3.500 in.
Ignition Box Color Red
Coil Included No
Warranty 1-year
Quantity Sold individually.
Notes If this ignition is used for racing the warranty is 90 days.


Digital performance at analog prices! That's what you get from the HyFire VI-AL ignitions from Mallory. Mallory has taken their VI-A ignition box and added an easy-to-adjust digital rev limiter that adjusts between 4,500-12,000 rpm, and doesn't require chips. They use the newest microprocessor-controlled circuitry to deliver more power and quicker acceleration with less current draw. These highly efficient ignitions deliver multiple sparks per combustion event, so you get consistent, reliable performance throughout the rpm range. The durable, lightweight, extruded aluminum housing ensures maximum heat transfer. They are easy to install and work with points, OEM, or aftermarket electronic ignitions, or magnetic crank triggers.
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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)

[Brit01]

Now I'm looking at the MegaJolt systems.
Double the price but completely difference performance.


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S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)