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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: Flywheel / clutch questions |
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I have a 16v modified engine with over 160bhp, not sure exactly, the guys who race prep these engines to class f get about 160bhp. My engine has that work done, plus cat cams, vernier pullies, omex 500 ecu, trumpets and larger injectors.
The car is stripped out, no interior, no sound deadening and will have a 1.5 sud gearbox fitted with no overdrive running on 195 50 15 & later possibly 13 / 14" wheels.
I am looking at fitting a lightened flywheel and have an ally one that i can buy, it just needs a ring fitted for the flywheel sensor. The owner said that on an 8v with about 130bhp the clutch/flywheel was at its limit and we spoke about using a 145/6 flywheel due to the larger clutch.
1. at what power point will a standard clutch start to fail on a 16v 33
2. whats the weight of a 16v 33 flywheel
3. whats the weight of a 145/6 flywheel
4. what weight is good to go down to? _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
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..uhm..from EPER spare catalogue:
alfa 33 16v flywheel (code 60504550) 7800 gr
alfa 33 8v i.e. 1.5-1.7 before 3-92 6650 and 6600 gr,
(probably without ring for crank position sensor trigger
teeth, as 33 carbs version; carb version also is 6650 gr)
alfa 33 8v i.e. 1.5-1.7 after 3-92 same of 33 16v, 7800 gr
(with the ring for the sensor)
alfa 33 8v i.e 1.3 7700 gr (with the ring for the sensor)
alfa 145/146 8v flywheel 1.3/1.6 7700 and 7800 gr
alfa 145/146 16v flywheel (code 60588325) 6800 gr
(probably having the rings of teeth for sensor and
starter motor with the same alignment you have on 33 16v )
The 6800 gr version is probably a nice bolt-on upgrade,
but I read about drastic modification of -3 kg
(starting from the heavy one version of 7800 gr)
without affecting too much idle regularity
(sorry I can't no more find the source);
so probably -2 kg is safe in normal use.
Ps: maybe you already know weight removed on
the more external parts of the flywheel is safe and
'counts' more on reducing angular inertia than if removed
near the center (where is in practice not useful remove
material and also dangerous because you can introduce
some risk of new vibrational modes and fatigue failure)..
Here some ideas about, from one who did it
http://alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/catalog.html
here a photo of his modified 16v flywheel:
http://alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/photo.html
(nice because modification it is done without holes,
not adding aerodynamics resistance at the flywheel) _________________ Alfa 33 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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..uhm..is a rebus..
reading the EPER catalogue it seam that for 145/146
16v (but also for 8v) there was 2 different kits for clutch:
- before 06-94 unknow diameter (for 16V: alfa code 5894164)
- after 06-94 200 mm diameter (for 16v: alfa code 5894980 - 5800 gr valeo)
(kits for 8v are about 1 kg less heavy, so another good
reason on a 16v for removing safely material from the flywheel..)
..but the flywheel code seem it remains the same for both clutch kits..
..may be the 16v 145 flywheel not only is less heavy but it
can use clutch of different (bigger) diameter?
(I imagine also 33 16v flywheel can be machined enlarging
the clutch area to be similar the 145/146 one if necessary
for a particular clutch kit) _________________ Alfa 33
Last edited by Bobkelso on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea, i do not have a normal 16v to look at.
I collect my 1.5 sud box soon and thought whilst fitting it i could get a lightened flywheel fitted, want to get it right. _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Oggie Green Cloverleaf
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 811 Location: Whitehill
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Weight of the old flywheel is 7.5kg, TTV lightened flywheel to take standard clutch is 5kg, drove my car today with new flywheel and can feel better response from engine and feels quicker to pick up the revs.
TTV race flywheel requires race clutch ( no good for road use) is nearly half the weight again. _________________ PHAT 33 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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wow!!!
How much fun?!
2nd gear feels like 1st gear used to lol, I need to sort the front out to get some grip in 1st _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Ian M Green Cloverleaf
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 911 Location: Bath Somerset
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Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Convert to 4WD Al ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) _________________ Presntly own
Red Abarth 500c |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Bobkelso Alfa Sprint
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 190 Location: Milan - Italy
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi BigAl..well done..
You have lightened and balanced a 16v 33 flywheel
or you have picked a new "racing "one?
What weight is the flywheel you have now? _________________ Alfa 33 |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Bobkelso,
I bought a billett steel one, not the full race one though it is 5kg, 2.5kg lighter than the standard one ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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Ian M Green Cloverleaf
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 911 Location: Bath Somerset
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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BigAl wrote: |
Not sure if you are being serious
way too much extra weight, p4's are slow in comparison. |
Well go on a diet Al
Think about it, while your sat there in a cloud of smoke transferring all your rubber onto the tarmac the P4 is down the road and gone. |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Ian M Green Cloverleaf
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 911 Location: Bath Somerset
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Time to face up to the truth Al
You have ruined your car ![Rolling Eyes](images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif) _________________ Presntly own
Red Abarth 500c |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:08 am Post subject: |
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You say ruined, I say nearly finished.
It is going to be a trackday car which is what I've had planned for it for a long time.
As with everything modified, one is never quite finished ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ x2 33 16v
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Ian M Green Cloverleaf
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Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 911 Location: Bath Somerset
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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When you think about it, when on track you really won't need to worry about 1st gear traction anyway.
If you were going racing then you would have to address it. _________________ Presntly own
Red Abarth 500c |
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BigAl P4
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Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 2990 Location: U.K Surrey
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I been thinking of traction controll via an omex 600 ecu if the race front end and / or tyres doesn't sort it, will prob need to add different hub / driveshaft for the sensor
I'm sure the racers with a 1.2 box dont have problems with 1st gear ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ x2 33 16v
pictures http://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5203 |
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