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Brit01
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Joined: 24 May 2010
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 Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: Cylinder 2 no compression! |
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Bad news!
Thought I had a fuel issue.
No compression on number two.
Mechanic will remove the head on Monday.
Very strange he said. We had almost 180psi last year.
No ticking noise either.
Burnt valve or broken ring?
Seat worn??
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eagle3
Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I take it cylinder 1 is good.
Camshaft ok?
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Brit01
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat.
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Brit01
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Are the intake valves 92.0 mm or 92.9 mm long?
I've seen 2 versions 
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eagle3
Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 402
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Brit01 wrote: |
1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat. |
Just wondered whether it was belt-related. Can't help with the valve length I'm afraid. Might be something to do with the valve clearance adjustment. Older engines had manual adjustment; later ones(like yours) have pastilles(shims).
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Brit01
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| eagle3 wrote: |
| Brit01 wrote: |
1 is fine. Why?
Cams are new. No ticking nioses from tappets either.
Burnt valve possibly or damaged seat. |
Just wondered whether it was belt-related. Can't help with the valve length I'm afraid. Might be something to do with the valve clearance adjustment. Older engines had manual adjustment; later ones(like yours) have pastilles(shims). |
I did check my belts and all aligned. didn't slip any teeth
hydraulic tappets here so no lash.
No ticking noise due to broken tappets.
maybe one has collapsed and its not opening (but wouldn't tick)? Could this happen?
I have a few tappets spare luckily. valves are the issue
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Brit01
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Great!
just spoke with my mechanic. very experienced, worked on European rallys etc.
'don't worry about finding valves. we have expert machinist who takes high quality race valves and machines them to the exact dimensions we need'
if it is in fact a valve issue or not a tappet or something.
broken piston ring? maybe
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eagle3
Alfa 33
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hydraulic tappet seized?
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Brit01
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| eagle3 wrote: |
| Hydraulic tappet seized? |
yep could be I guess.
But no unusual noises coming from the cam area. dead silent.
collapsed internals so its not lifting the valve?
if it was seized wouldn't hit be hitting the lobe and making a nasty noise?
has a broken tappet before and it sounded like a sewing machine!
all guessing right now. we'll see next week but I am so curious.
I have one spare alfa tappet NOS. and I can buy INA ones here. All in now are INA about 2 years old.
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anxious day today.
Took her in to have the head removed.
He'll call me once he has it off to see the damage!
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fluffyduff
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Hopefully it's not too painful... |
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyduff wrote: |
| Hopefully it's not too painful... |
I don't mind if its a valve job. he knows his stuff and can do that easily.
Don't want it to be a broken piston ring or hole in the piston. I want the pistons to remain in place.
Hope the tappets are fine along with the cams also. (replaced 2 years ago)
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johnboy
16 Valve
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck chap 
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Admin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Is it really zero compression, or just low? Zero would need quite dramatic damage I would think (and would make a massive difference to performance).
Not done it but I think you could probably change a piston with the engine in place with little more effort than replacing a valve. Head off, sump off, undo big end bolts, slide piston and rod out through the top.
Years ago my father had an oil consumption problem on a Lotus Europa. As a short term bodge he used the Selenia HPX oil (20W60 oil for old engines), which cured the oil consumption. A later engine strip revealed the reason for the oil consumption as a broken piston ring  .
All the best
Keith
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lee16v
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Admin wrote: |
Hi
Is it really zero compression, or just low? Zero would need quite dramatic damage I would think (and would make a massive difference to performance).
Not done it but I think you could probably change a piston with the engine in place with little more effort than replacing a valve. Head off, sump off, undo big end bolts, slide piston and rod out through the top.
Years ago my father had an oil consumption problem on a Lotus Europa. As a short term bodge he used the Selenia HPX oil (20W60 oil for old engines), which cured the oil consumption. A later engine strip revealed the reason for the oil consumption as a broken piston ring .
All the best
Keith |
compression was about 40 psi at best and was slow to get up to that.
Absolutely no power from #2. remove the HT cable and no difference.
Basically its not firing and its running on 3 cylinders so yes a huge difference in performance.
never saw any oil being burnt though. plug was blackish but not wet at all. just rich soot
yep piston could come out with engine in but if a ring replacement is needed then the difficult part is honing that bore to accept the new rings.
this is normally an engine out job and needs thorough cleaning afterwards.
Lets just hope its a burnt valve and not sealing on its seat properly.
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the link
yeh maybe it is this. maybe a smaller hole as I get a little pressure while running the engine. maybe a small hole.
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eagle3
Alfa 33
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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If there's any compression(you did say "no compression" before) then the valve must be closing tight at some stage. Any hole however small would reduce the compression to zero, if not immediately then some short time after.
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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We did a fast test on the side of the road With the engine running.
Not a leak down test.
If the hole is small there would still be a small amount of compression as it is forced out of the hole.
Unless so big as pictured in the link.
well anyway there is a spark, fuel going in but not producing any power and extremely low compression.
No noises from tappets or smoke coming out.
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust!
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eagle3
Alfa 33
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Is cylinder 1 identical to 3 and 4?
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kevjtd
Alfa Arna
Joined: 13 Sep 2013
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Location: Lincolnshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Brit01 wrote: |
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust! |
there's your clue.
burnt exhaust valve or the seat has eroded/moved/cracked
that's where my money would be |
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Brit01
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kevjtd wrote: |
| Brit01 wrote: |
it does sound like a tractor though coming from the exhaust! |
there's your clue.
burnt exhaust valve or the seat has eroded/moved/cracked
that's where my money would be |
great. yeh the noise comes from the carbs and tailpipe.
no news from the mechanic today. hopefully get a call tomorrow.
bets are on then
burnt valve or eroded seat: 1-2
Best to get all valves and guides done while the head is off I assume
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Brit01
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Very weird!!
Just got a call from the mechanic and the piston started working again before he took the head off!!!
Must have been a carbon build up or something!!
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Brit01
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Tensioners were shot! ! Changed them just in time! !
Old pump came out with a fight.
Old plastic rotor! !! Cheap no??
All new going on today.
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johnboy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Good news Brit and a bit lucky with the Tensioners
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WODA WE NEED? MORE POWER!!
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1990 S2 16v veloce sleeping!
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1997 seadoo gsx 800
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