Alfa Pages Forum Index Alfa Pages
A forum for help with the Alfasud And Alfa 33
 

High oil pressure

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alfa Pages Forum Index -> Boxer Workshop
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: High oil pressure Reply with quote

I fitted an electric oil pressure gauge to the Trofeo recently. It was previously on the Imola, and read just under 40 psi with the engine hot.

On the Trofeo it reads over 90 psi after starting and runs at about 60 psi even when really hot. I try to keep the revs down until it drops below 80.

As the gauge and sender are the same as were fitted on the Imola I'm pretty sure the current readings are correct, and the relief valve must be stuck closed.

The car was probably stored for some time before I bought it, as it was little used even before the owner died and his son had not driven it much. It had only done 50,000 miles or so, so I guess condensation may have accumulated in the valve and corroded it stuck.

I suppose I'll have to drop the sump and tend to it, but can anyone suggest any other way of freeing it up?
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JeremyC
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 609
Location: Petersfield, Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put some sort of engine flushing oil / additive through it.

Has it been for any long runs, getting the engine thoroughly hot can often help with such things too.

If you know where the valve is you could also try some gently taps with a hammer in the vicinity.
_________________
'93 Black 33 1.7 16v
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigAl
P4


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 3145
Location: U.K Surrey

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the pressure release valve is in the oil pump housing at the top of the oil pick up, no access to it unless the sump is dropped off.
Could it be anything to do with the valve in the oil filter?
_________________
1993 ser 3 silver 16v
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bobkelso
Alfa Sprint


Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 211
Location: Milan - Italy

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi RFlower,

I just made a conversion to think about:
40 psi=2,68 atmosphere (it seams reasonable for oil in a motor)
80 psi=5,44 atmosphere (it seams quite higt but still reasonable for oil in a motor??)
At least you know the oil pump of your Trofeo is extremely efficient;
oil type and mileage are similar or different respect the previous car ?

Just to be sure that 80psi it is not a value in the normal range,
does somebody know at what pressure level the relief valve
in the pump is supposed to open in all the 8v boxers?

Ps.: I'm interested in learning a simple way
to fit an oil pressure gauge on the boxer,
in what point of the circuit it is measured
the pressure by the original probe?
You use the same point with a ramification pipe?
Do you have the possibility to post some photos
about the oil pressure probe fitted on your motor?
_________________
Alfa 33
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my Haynes Manual for the Alfa Sud, the nominal setting of the oil pressure relief valve is 4.5 bar.

However, my (old) 33 manual says that, with the oil at 90ºC, the pressure should be between 1.18 and 2.75 bar at 800 rpm and between 4.12 and 5.69 bar at 5500 rpm. Mine is still too high, even according to those figures!

One problem with too much oil pressure is a slight possibility of erosion of the bearing surfaces by the increased flow. More important is the possibility of bursting the full flow oil filter, especially when the oil is cold and thick.

You can connect an oil pressure gauge by 1) fitting a suitable tee piece to the original pressure switch connection close to the filter 2) by fitting a combined switch/pressure sender unit in the same position, or 3) by removing the large plug in the oil gallery at the top centre of the block and fitting a separate sender unit with a suitable adapter.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oggie
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 889
Location: Whitehill

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always said (haven't I Al ) that any electric guage is only a rough estimate guide to what the oil pressue is, same as almost every dial in the 33. I would fit a capillary pressue unit to get an exact reading before worrying about any engine internals, can be done for under £70.
_________________
PHAT 33
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oggie wrote:
I have always said (haven't I Al ) that any electric guage is only a rough estimate guide to what the oil pressue is, same as almost every dial in the 33. I would fit a capillary pressue unit to get an exact reading before worrying about any engine internals, can be done for under £70.


I assume you mean a Bourdon Tube type gauge connected via a capilliary.
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/sensors/bourdon_tubes/bourdon_intro.cfm

There is really no inherent reason why such a gauge should be more accurate then an "electric" gauge, just because it uses a mechanical linkage to move a needle rather than an electric signal from a strain gauge on a similar Bourdon device.

In any case, as you can see from my original posting, the gauge and sender give pressure readings of double those on the other engine, which has similar mileage.

That in itself is reason to believe the pressure is too high on this engine.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oggie
Green Cloverleaf


Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 889
Location: Whitehill

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the Trofeo run a different rating of altinator to the Imola?, or a different guage of wire? my thinking is that if the altinator has been up rated to a higher output then it could be the cause of a higher reading hence the reason for you getting a direct test of the oil pressure from the block not through an electric sender (which again may not be correct as you have said it could be stuck).
A cappilary as Im sure you know has no link to the electrical system(other than dial illumination) and therefore would give you a better more accurate reading as the dial needle is moved by the engine oil itself.
Perhaps a garage could do a quick test before condeming an internal part an stripping a potentially good running motor?.
_________________
PHAT 33
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some high quality (well, quite expensive) direct reading (Bourdon tube type) pressure gauges, so I will connect one or two to the oil pressure system to check against the installed gauge when I have time.
I'll let you know the result.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brit01
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any update on your oil pressure issue?

Wink
_________________
S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brit01 wrote:
any update on your oil pressure issue?

Wink


I have been far too busy working on a house we have to move into next week!
However, while thinking about the issue, it occurred to me that when the relief valve opens it dumps the oil back into the sump via a fairly small passage (otherwise it could drop the pressure too much).
So, when the oil is cold and very viscous, this passage may not be large enough to allow enough flow for the pressure to drop to the nominal value of 4.5 Bar.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brit01
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a coolish morning I get 90 psi easily when I blip the throttle but it always stops at 90 meaning the valve is working and the oil is being dumped back into the sump.

Have to wait until it warms up to drive it above 3000 rpm. In winter will change to 10W probably.

Using 20w oil.
_________________
S2 33 1988 1.7 QV
Dellorto DRLA40 (32mm venturi)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jacobcak545
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NBA Jerseys
NMD
NFL Shop Jerseys
Christian Louboutin UK
Nike Free rn
Nike Outlet
Hockey Jerseys
Air Max
Pandora Charms
MLB Jerseys
Air Jordan Shoes
Jordan 4
MLB Store
Nike Outlet Online
Nike Factory Outlet Store Online
Nike Canada
Pandora Jewelry Official Site
NFL Jerseys
Nike Outlet
Christian Louboutin Shoes
Jerseys Cheap
Jerseys Wholesale
Adidas Shoes For Women
Cheap NFL Jerseys
Cheap Jerseys
Baseball Jerseys
Nike Air Force Ones
NFL Team Shop
MLB Jerseys
Nike Epic React Flyknit
Cheap NBA Jerseys
NFL Jerseys
Pandora Rings
NFL Shop
Nike Wholesale Distributors
Cheap NHL Jerseys China
Wholesale Jordans
NFL Jerseys Wholesale
Nike Huarache Men
Moncler Outlet
Nike Zoom Pulse
Cheap Shoes From China
Soccer Jerseys
NFL Jerseys Cheap
Nike Store
Nike
Cheap Jordans
Wholesale Jordans
Jordan 5
Wholesale Jordans
Custom Football Jerseys
Adidas Yeezy Boost 350 V2
Cheap Jordan Shoes
Nike Air Max 720
Nike Air Force 1
Air Max
Pandora Jewelry
Cheap Nike Shoes From China
Fila
Roshe
Cheap Jerseys
Jordan 33
Adidas
Pandora Ring
Nike Blazer
NFL Jerseys
Wholesale Adidas
NBA Shirts
Nike 270
Cheap MLB Jerseys From China
Nike Sneakers
Nike Outlet Store
Discount Jordan Shoes Wholesale
Christian Louboutin Shoes
Wholesale Jerseys
Nike Clearance
New NFL Jerseys
Cheap Jordan
Nike Lunarlon
Red Bottoms Louboutin
MLB Jerseys
Cheap Hockey Jerseys
Nike Huaraches
Wholesale Jerseys China
Nike Outlet
Wholesale Jordan Shoes
Adidas Store
Nike Running Shoes
Pandora
Nike Zoom Pegasus 35
Wholesale Jerseys
Custom Football Jerseys
Air Jordan
Wholesale Cheap Jordans
Wholesale Jerseys
Off White Nike Shoes
Wholesale Shoes
Football Jerseys Cheap
Nike Acg Shoes
Pandora Jewelry Official Site
NFL Jersey
Nike Shoes Cyber Monday
Wholesale Nike Air Max
NHL Gear
Pandora Bracelet
Nike Running Shoes
Fjallraven Kanken
NFL Pro Shop
Cheap Jerseys Wholesale
Cheap Jerseys
NFL Store Online Shopping
Pandora Jewelry
Cheap NHL Jerseys Reddit
Pandora Rings
Lebron James Shoes
Cheap Jerseys Wholesale
Wholesale Jerseys
Nike Outlet
Louboutin
Nike Outlet
Cheap Jerseys From China
Cheap Hockey Jerseys
Nike SB Dunk
Wholesale Adidas
Nike Air Max 270 Flyknit
Yeezy
Nike Air Force 1
Nike Cortez
Jordan Retro 11
Jordan 12
Jordans 2019
Nike Shoes Sale
Custom NBA Jerseys
Pandora Jewelry Charms
Pandora Jewelry
NBA Jerseys
Cheap Adidas Shoes
Cheap MLB Baseball Jerseys
Nike Air Force
Air Jordan 33
Hockey Jerseys
Huaraches Shoes
Cheap NFL Jerseys
Yeezy Butter
Nike Sandals
Cheap NFL Jerseys
NFL Jerseys Cheap
Pandora Jewelry Official Site
Adidas Trainers Sale
Nike Free Run
Nike Wholesale
Nike Air Jordan
Cheap Nike Jordan Shoes
Air Max
Nike Outlet
Nike
Cheap Jerseys
Cheap NBA Jerseys
NBA Jerseys Wholesale
Cheap Jerseys
Cheap Jordans Wholesale
Nikes Shoes
NBA Store
Nike Outlet
Pandora Charms
NFL Jerseys
NHL Shop
Cheap NFL Jerseys
Wholesale Jerseys
Cheap Nike Shoes
Cheapest Jerseys
Wholesale Shoes
Nikes Wholesale
NBA Store
Cheap Jerseys
Jordan 1
Adidas Outlet Store
Wholesale Nike Clothing
NFL Apparel
Air Force 1
Nike Air Force 1 High
MLB Shop
Cheap Nikes From China
Cheap Jerseys
Cheap NBA Jerseys From China
Pandora
NFL Jerseys From China
Wholesale Jerseys China
Nike Air Foamposite
NFL Shop
Back to top
RFlower
Gold Cloverleaf


Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 588
Location: S of France

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RFlower wrote:
Brit01 wrote:
any update on your oil pressure issue?

Wink


I have been far too busy working on a house we have to move into next week!
However, while thinking about the issue, it occurred to me that when the relief valve opens it dumps the oil back into the sump via a fairly small passage (otherwise it could drop the pressure too much).
So, when the oil is cold and very viscous, this passage may not be large enough to allow enough flow for the pressure to drop to the nominal value of 4.5 Bar.


9 years and 13,000 miles later, (it's our 2nd, local shopping, car now) the pressures are still about the same. No engine problems.
_________________
Dick Flower, Nr. Carcassonne. '94 Trofeo 1.4 ie (F), '93 Imola 1.3/1.4 ie (now for parts) (F), '91 1.7 ie (GB)(spare car), '86 Sprint 1.5 QV (F). '87 VW Syncro camper (F), '96 Audi Avant 1.8T (F)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alfa Pages Forum Index -> Boxer Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum