Alfa Pages

Errol · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:56 am Post subject: Gearbox?

Hey i think its time i changed the gearbox in my 33, and i want to know if its possible to put a different car brand gear box in it. Does it have to be a 33 gearbox , or wont a different brand fit. Because we all know the alfa gearboxes..are..well....something not to be desired..
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91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

Peter D · Alfasud Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Denmark

I have never heard about a gearbox that would fit to the boxer-Alfa's with only a few modifications.

The Alfa 33 (1987-) gearbox has better ratios than most other gearboxes (rather high 1. gear and close following gears).

You can drive more than 200.000 km with the Alfa gearbox with no problems, if you do not abuse it.

It can also handle great torque. I have drived my boxercar with compressor for 15 years without gearbox problems!

Peter (DK)

sudman · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:44 am Post subject:

What is not to be desired about Alfa boxes??? I've never had any trouble at all, except for a worn 2nd gear syncro in a box that had done 200,000+ kms, and other than that was fine!!! The throw of the gearshift lever is a bit long, and the shift can be a bit vague feeling in older boxes, but a quick change of the rubber bushes in the shift linkage fix that pretty quickly!!!

Also I know many guys who race Suds, Sprints, 33s etc. and pretty much all of them run a standard Alfa box, the main mod being a Subaru LSD in the cars with particularly high power!

So the moral of the story is... stick with the Alfa gearbox!!!

Errol · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:18 pm Post subject:

Interesting......mine seems to have given up after 110.000km..how much would a new gear box cost? roughly in AUD.
_________________
91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

Eddie W · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:40 pm Post subject:

Errol
What's given up in your box, is it the usual 2nd gear or something more? I've rebuilt the selectors in one of our cars with Wearbrase for longer life and run a full synthetic oil in all three. The oil makes quite a difference.
Regards Eddie

Errol · Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:09 am Post subject:

yes 2nd gear has given up..sometimes i have shift very , very slowy when changing from 1st to 2nd. Sometimes it slips into 4th!! Im annoyed because i am losing so mucn acceleration in 2nd gear. Maybe an gearbox reconditioning is in the calling... Sad

Another quick question, are there any good clutch kits out there for a 33 16v ? something aftermarket which is better than the stock clutch perhaps? Thanks Smile

_________________
91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

alferr · Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:34 am Post subject:

heard a rumour that might be of some help, not sure if it is true though

the alfa 145 with the boxer engine in it, fits the gear box, the syncro's on that model, didn't have the problem i think?
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-=alferr=-
goto #alfa33_net on DALnet

Peter D · Alfasud Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Denmark

What is now wrong with the original clutch?

Nothing!

It can last the hole lifetime of the car. The only thing that fails is the little bearing (and if you do not discover, eventually the hole clutch will fail).

You can buy (at least in my country) a ceramic clutch for the boxer with four "feet" and no spring at all. But that is only for very serious racing. Then you really start stressing the gearbox, differential and drive shafts.

Do not change anything that works perfect. Spend your money else where.

Peter (DK)

Errol · Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:13 am Post subject:

See , the difference is , in my country, any part that has the alfa logo on it costs an absolute fortune. Thats why i try and look for other parts that will fit and be cheaper....which are just as good I might add , if not better. Very Happy

_________________
91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

alexj · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:14 am Post subject:

If you want a quicker change/less syncro problems, then maybe it would be worth trying a trick commonly used in the other Alfa models.... mainly the 105 series GTV/Spider.... you could try lightening the gears (same time as you get your synchros done).

http://www.speedquest.com/gearlightning/
http://denovich.org/alfa/sikand_mti/clone/transax_light_feat0496.htm

As sudman and Peter point out, racing suds and 33's run a (near) standard alfa box for engine powers up to 180bhp (and more?). If there was a big advantage in running something else, I suspect the top racers would be doing it already.

Remember, most FWD cars are transverse engine, so there aren't too many possibilites for a swap.... although a Subaru 4WD conversion could be interesting.

Regards, Lex

Errol · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:18 am Post subject:

Cool thanks a lot alex. Ill look into that. Those race 33's you are talking about, how they getting 180bhp? I really want to increase the power out of my 33 and make it one nice little machine, but i dont want to turbocharge or supercharge because of cost/reliabilty etc. What have they done to get up from 132bhp to 180bhp?
_________________
91 Alfa Romeo 33 16v * SOLD*
Lowered 45mm
15 x 7 inch advanti wheels
Falken 195 low profile
K&N Pod filter
Cannon 2inch exhaust from cat-back with 3inch tip.

sudman · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:07 pm Post subject:

Apparently its common for Alfa boxers to be bored and stroked to 1800 to 2000cc, so I understand after talking to my uncle. Then you can factor in fuel system changes, engine management, a plethoria of head work etc etc... just like any other engine I would imagine. A 180hp engine would probably not be particularly nice to drive on the street!!! Questionable reliability as well???

Matt Stolton · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:46 pm Post subject: I'm doing 180BHP in a road car

My P4 project is aiming at 180BHP, and am aiming to keep it day to day tractable.

We have sourced 'hotter' cams and chip, which give about 20BHP extra. These could easily loose lots of torque at bottom end, but we are keeping some compromises in to keep torque up. One main ingredient is a 145/6 16V boxer plenum, which has a longer tract length, with an alternative profile, which was designed to give torque, admitedly at the sacrifice of bhp. However, with some revisions, the torque is kept with minimal loss to high end breathing.

However, it is in the heads that we are getting major power gains, and the whiole package starts to work. With the 16V head there is a lot of scope for getting it to breath easier, whilst still keeping what little torque there is. With enlarged valves, and keeping some of the 'asymetry', you can get the Jekyl and Hyde. (i.e. torque and driveability at low revs, but good breathing for top end BHP).

Obviously, revisions to inlet tract and exhaust will have to be done to extract the best from the head revisions, but the overall package should be reliable. We expect to have to inspect big end and main beaings every 6 months, just to check for longevity, but realistically expect 15K miles before having to replace them. Even then, it isn't expensive.

The block and crank have already been thoroughly inspected and tested, and the rods and pistons have been machined to within 0.1gr to make sure the engine will spin as efficiently and with as little violence/wear as money will allow. The crank and flywheel have also been balanced, again to help the bearings last a bit longer, and make the overall package able to rev without shaking itself to pieces. This doesn't give you any extra power, but means you can spin the engine that bit faster, giving you a little more up top. If you can fuel and allow enough air in at this higher speed, then you can get more power out.

Overall, the package, from inlet filter through to exhaust, will give us very close to 180bhp, our engineer is saying possibley even more, but we really think we can keep tractability and the day to day usefulness. Further more, with a little care, and regular oil changes, we realistically expect good life expectancey.
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Regards

Matt

Ex Alfa 33 'GTA' (P4 with Knobs On)
Now cruising in a 166 3.2 Ti!!

Errol · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:38 am Post subject:

Pimp_Dudu · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:42 am Post subject:

Ok...i understand gearlightening...but isnt there any other simpler and cheaper method...like something that an amataur like me (who can't even change his oil) do to help the 2nd gear crunch....cuz ive been driving with it for almost 8months and its really starting to get on my nerves...and the crunch is horrible...so horrible that i don't want to go anymore from 3rd to 2nd....not to mention that lately i started accelarating from 1st straight into 3rd....and just out of curiousity how serious is this crunch problem....like every time it crunches what exactly happens and does it damage something...or is it just an annoying sound...kind of dum dum questions but i dont really understand how the gears work, or for that matter why doesn't that bloody crunch stop.

Eddie W · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:51 am Post subject:

Dudu
What you have is a worn 2nd gear synchro ring. In simple terms, when you change gear you have two assemblies in the box that are spinning at different speeds(the gear freewheeling on the shaft and the hub with sliding engagement ring splined to the shaft) and when you change those two have to be spinning at the same speed to allow a set of internal teeth on the engagement ring to slide over matching external teeth on the gear. In between these two is the synchro ring which by exerting friction pressure on both assemblies when you move the gearstick adjusts their speed to the same thus allowing the two to mesh. If the synchro ring is worn then the speeds are not properly matched when the two try to engage and the crunch you hear is gear beating gear about. Eventually damage will result. The only external help for this is to learn to double declutch and changeing the oil to a full synthetic. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted to hear.
Regards Eddie

Peter D · Alfasud Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 60 Location: Denmark

Dudu

You will have to pay somebody to change the syncro ring and the engagement ring (since it may also be damaged now after the many "crunches").

When they are renewed, try to be kind to your gearbox. Slow shift to 2. gear when cold, and do not try to engage 2. gear under braking and still running more than 60 km/h. If you have only a little mechanical feeling, you can feel just how fast the syncros wants you to move the gear lever.

The syncros are the part on a car which tells most about the driving style. They can last for 5.000 km if you are a pig, or they can last for 200.000 km or more if you do not abuse the gearbox.

Peter