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Dr A. 33 1.5IE · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: Cooling system leakage

Dear all,

This message is not refering to any usual cooling system leakages. I am just reporting it as it's been quite a pain to sort out my problem.

A few days ago I spotted coloured water leaking just under the right hand side drainage (I am driving a RHD car). Of course the radiator return bottle was proved empty thus I went straight to my mechanic to sort it out.

What I found and that's the reason why I post this message is that some late model 33's especially those with aircon units installed, just above the master clutch cylinder in the firewall shelf, you can probably see the warm water hoses entering the car's ventilation unit, connected (4 hoses, two at the front and two at the back) to a black 'switch' that controls the air temperature mixer from the dashboard (via an electric motor attached to it). That was found to leak from the little rotating beam that closes or opens the radiator warm water entry or return.

According to Alfa Romeo dealer such a component is not longer available by the factory and if it was it costs over 200 Euros!!! If you need such a part though all airconditioning specialists have the same or similar switches that will do the job (for 50 euros at the most). Also another place to find such a part (we are talking about a new part) is at an Opel or Vauxhall dealership as similar switches were installed in 2000 aircon Corsa's.

As I haven't come across such a problem before though including the 33s forum I thought it could a good idea to post my experience. So if some 33 owners have that switch on their cars (with an aircon) and lose radiator water without having located the leakage yet, please check that spot I mentioned above.

That's all for now
_________________
1994 Alfa 33 1.5 IE Cat. 220.000Kms and still going strong!!! (Από την Αθήνα και τώρα στην Λευκωσία)

gritsop · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Do you mean the item in the red circle? If yes then it is indeed a discontinued part. It is actually operated via cable in order to block the way of hot coolant when the A/C is on.

This is a photo from a wreched Alfa 33 with A/C that I salvaged some time ago.

My trusted spare parts dealer actually has loads of these switches supplied by third party companies in Italy. The cost is around 50€ and I am planning on installing the A/C system on my 33 soon.

In case anyone needs this part then PM me and I'll give you contact details of the supplier.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Dr A. 33 1.5IE · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject:

Dear Gritsop,

Although it is not exactly the same it does the same job. I am not entirelly certain that this valve you showed is a 'vacuum valve' and not a electric motor operated valve. Mine has the valve closing-opening rotor in parallel to the car than to vertical as it appears on that picture of yours.

I pressume that my valve was more likely and more prone to leak due to its position, but the one you showed seems more mechanical and a bit more sturdy compared to mine.

Anyway that spot over there proved to be a nice 'hiding' leaking place for the cooling system.

In addition just after I changed the valve my radiator gave up, so I can now proudly say that almost everything in the engine bay are now well checked and maintained as they should (until another problem crops up, cross-fingers not!!!)

Regards
_________________
1994 Alfa 33 1.5 IE Cat. 220.000Kms and still going strong!!! (Από την Αθήνα και τώρα στην Λευκωσία)

gritsop · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Well it seems that you have the "newer" A/C system mostly fitted in the 16V models.

It is true that this system employing a motor to cut off hot coolant is much more efficient that the mechanical one that the picture shows.

By the way, do you still use R12 freon or have you converted the A/C system into R134a? I'm doing some kind of research in order to be prepared for the installation on my car.

Regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop

Bellamachinna · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:39 am Post subject:

I also had that problem...

But, at the time, i was able to bought it straight from the Alfa dealer.
Mine is also electric, and is smaller than the one pictured.

However i had a problem fitting the new one. The holes for the screws that attach it to the heater were bigger, so i had to "find" new screws to fit the new "thermo-switch".

When screwing them i broke one of the plastic inserts, and the piece was left only with 2 attachement points.
The part is not as solid as before.
_________________
All'interno della mia macchina, vi sedete, tenete sopra e CHIUDETE IN SU...

Dr A. 33 1.5IE · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

Hello again,

Yes Bellamachina I came across that problem to. Luckily my mechanic has a hell of a load of 'screws collection' so I managed to get a pair that were a bit bigger than the original ones and not to long to pierce the valve.

Mine is a you mentioned the small type valve not the vacuum type that very kindly Gritsop showed and it has been quite a pain to manage to undo the screws that hold the valve, electric motor and rotor attached to the veltilation box.

It is a hell of a spot to sort out and I am happy that I managed to keep the cooling water in, and now a week after my expansion bottle stays filled!!!

Actually gents how much water does your expansion bottle holds in everyday use? Mine rises about 3-4cm in the bottle from the lower hose that directs water towards the heater!

Regards!
_________________
1994 Alfa 33 1.5 IE Cat. 220.000Kms and still going strong!!! (Από την Αθήνα και τώρα στην Λευκωσία)

Dr A. 33 1.5IE · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject:

By the way Gritsop,

My aircon unit still uses the R12 freon gas. I know is not as ecollogical as the R134 but its a big expense to change the compressor for an R134 freon gas and as mine does not seems to have any problem I am keeping things as they are for the time being.

If you think about installing an aircon unit in yours you better think about getting the R134 type as you start from scratch. At least my system is quite potent with no leaks!!! So I can be a little more relaxed about affecting the environment as my R12 stays in the system!!!

The only think that I could recommend you to do if possible is to find a way to if possible install a condenser in front of the radiator as that could produce much better cooling results. As you probably know in Alfa there are 2 condensers one on each side of the car's front wings, tilted at a 60 degrees angle with fans on each condenser in order to move the air under there a bit more efficiently.

I do not know anyone with such a convertion but maybe just maybe as the radiator has a bit of a clearance from the front grille you might be able to fit a condenser there!!!

That's just a guessing!

Thanks

ps. if anyone is interested about that valve I mentioned above although the dealer is down here in Cyprus I could get their contact details and post them through the forum.
_________________
1994 Alfa 33 1.5 IE Cat. 220.000Kms and still going strong!!! (Από την Αθήνα και τώρα στην Λευκωσία)

gritsop · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:42 am Post subject:

Hi again,

I'm planning to install R134a freon gas as after a research I did revealed that R12 is scarse and expensive. In order to do the conversion you don't need to replace the compressor; it can run on R134 freon filled at the 80% of the volume it would get if R12 was installed.

In addition the circuit must be flushed away of the R12 refrigerant oil and new expansion valve and dryer filter installed, both compatible of R134 freon.

This conversion pays back the cost in the long run when R12 wil not be available.

Regarding the front condenser: I have seen such mod and frankly I didn't like it Confused

. The most suitable condenser is out of Lancia Y but it requires cutting of the grille and possibly a bit of the bumper. Also I wouldn't like to deviate from originality ... I will do my best to install it according to the workshop manual steps in order to make the best out of it. Wink

Best regards,
_________________
Thanassis Gritsopoulos
1991 Alfa 33 1.4 IE
2001 Alfa 147 1.6 Distinctive

http://www.alfa-restoration.co.uk
Parts Shop: www.alfa-restoration.co.uk/shop